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Moderators participating to the KudoZ area
Thread poster: gianfranco

gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:05
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
May 21, 2003

I take two quotes from another thread, as I find this an important issue to discuss.

The first is:

Dyran wrote:

...snip...

b) Prevent moderators from participating in KudoZ. Why only a few seem to see a conflict of interests with the present setup is quite an enigma.

...snip...


and the second is:


Marijke wrote:

...snip...

I think Dyran's point is very valid especially the reasons she gives in her second message.

Personally, I have stopped trying to answer questions when a moderator has answered. Just wasting my time since I don't even think the asker bothers reading it. Also, when I haven't answered and others have in combination with a moderator, the moderator is usually awarded the points, even when the other answers have a long list of agrees.

I think Dyran is very brave in mentioning this issue. I haven't in the past because it sounds like sour grapes but I would like to make it absolutely clear that that is not the case. Whether I get points or not leaves me completely cold. I just like to help and learn. It does not influence the jobs I get since I rarely get work through the ProZ.com website (2 jobs in all the years I have been a member).

...snip...



I'm very surprised to read these comments and opinions and I would like to discuss the matter, asking if any other member has noticed or agrees with them.

The KudoZ area is at the core of the site, and anything worth addressing will be addressed by the site and by the moderator's team.

Many moderators are very active in the KudoZ area and many are on top or near the top of their language pairs scoreboard, but I attribute this to their generosity helping colleagues, passion for the site and passion for the KudoZ area, not because of any unfair advantage due to their work as moderators.

I personally have never perceived this as a problem. It may happen that a person assigns the point to the wrong person (even to a moderator), and I have seen a couple of instances where an answer provided by me was preferred to a better one, but also "many" cases where the opposite happened. It is all part of the KudoZ system, it may happen and it happens.


In general I don't share the concerns expressed, but this is perhaps my distorted and personal view as a moderator.

I ask to all site members:
- Have you got different opinions?
- have you got any suggestions to help reducing this possible problem?

The site may put in place guidelines and/or other measures, if necessary, and all constructive opinions are welcome.

Gianfranco
ProZ.com Moderators Coordinator


[Edited at 2003-07-04 07:43]


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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:05
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Same here, Gianfranco... May 21, 2003

...I\'ve never seen this as an issue in my SC (En>De) and my other active language pairs (i.e. mainly De>En and Fr>De; De>Fr and It>De to a limited extent). Nobody has ever approached me with a complaint to this effect.



My 2c,

Steffen


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Attila Piróth  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:05
Member
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Excluding moderators from the KudoZ arena is absurd. May 21, 2003

There was a posting several weeks ago about the controversial behaviour of one of the moderators: (s)he entered a term in the KudoZ glossary that had not been selected by the asker. This created quite a vivid discussion.

However, the problem seems marginal: so far over 400,000 KudoZ questions have been posted, and such incidents happened once in a blue moon. How could one argue then that moderators be banned from the KudoZ arena?

I suppose if members of a certain community are dissatisfied with their moderator, they can discuss this. But to exclude experienced members from giving help to their colleagues -- this is absurd, and completely contrary to the spirit of KudoZ. Sounds like an oversimplified image: the moderator has some power, so (s)he plays the role of the teacher -- and who would let the P.E. teacher put on the goalie\'s gloves in a football game between two classes?

In my language pairs I have not seen signs of moderators\' answers being chosen more easily than others\'. If this happens, however, it is much rather the askers\' fault than the answerers\'. Nonetheless isn\'t it rather like this: points are more easily awarded to KudoZ leaders rather than moderators? If so, this is an interesting issue that merits discussion - but please do not mix it up with that on the moderators\' role!



Attila


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:05
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I'm asking mainly for points of view from non moderators Jun 27, 2003

Steffen Walter wrote:

...I've never seen this as an issue in my SC (En>De) and my other active language pairs (i.e. mainly De>En and Fr>De; De>Fr and It>De to a limited extent). Nobody has ever approached me with a complaint to this effect.

My 2c,
Steffen


Hi Steffen,
we have never heard similar concerns before the two posting quoted above, but you and I are both moderators.

My point is that we may not be aware of it, so I was asking for feedback from other members of the site, asking to voice their point of view and trying to start an open discussion about how moderators are seen with regard specifically to their participation to the KudoZ area.

Gianfranco



[Edited at 2003-06-27 17:41]


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José Luis Villanueva-Senchuk  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 06:05
English to Spanish
+ ...
Ciao... Jul 1, 2003

I have taken the liberty of forwarding this thread's link to several active participants in the Spanish-English subcommunity.

It will be great to hear from everyone... (in favour or against our participation in KudoZ)

Take care and happy translations

JL


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María T. Vargas  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:05
English to Spanish
+ ...
I have no objection Jul 1, 2003

I have no objection. I would never belong to a site I cannot trust.
Regards to everyone

Pampi Vargas


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 06:05
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you José Jul 1, 2003

José Luis Villanueva-Senchuk wrote:

I have taken the liberty of forwarding this thread's link to several active participants in the Spanish-English subcommunity.

It will be great to hear from everyone... (in favour or against our participation in KudoZ)

Take care and happy translations

JL


Good idea! the discussion is languishing, perhaps it has not been noted or it is just a false problem, a non issue that doesn't bother many members.

In any case, an extra effort to see if there is anything indeed worth discussing is to attract participants from other forums, cross posting the link and see if other contributions are posted.

Gianfranco



[Edited at 2003-07-01 12:21]


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Guillermina Canale  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:05
English to Spanish
+ ...
Preventing moderators from participating in Kudoz... Jul 1, 2003

would cause a great loss to the page and consequently to us. Most moderators are proficient professionals, and their help is very important. I have never noticed anybody granting Kudoz points to somebody just for being a moderator. It is true that when you have several answers, and you know that one of the persons who answered is an expert on the topic, you just pick his/her answer, but it has nothing to do with that person being a moderator.
From my point of view, if moderators are banned from participating in Kudoz, this site would lose much of its professional level.

Guillermina


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Nora Escoms  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 06:05
English to Spanish
+ ...
I don't see a problem there Jul 1, 2003

Hi everybody.

Personally, I haven't been very active in kudoz lately, so I can't really say I've noticed a problem. However, I don't see why moderators should be excluded from the kudoz section. Askers can use as many answers as they (we) can get, and if moderators can help, why shouldn't they? Banning their participation doesn't sound very democratic to me, as well as being a waste of knowledge and experience. And if there IS a problem in some cases, perhaps the community should deal with those cases in particular.

Regards to everyone from a rainy Buenos Aires...

Nora


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Elinor Thomas  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:05
English to Spanish
+ ...
Agree with Guillermina and Nora Jul 1, 2003

Furthermore, I've been granted Kudoz in some questions where Moderators also posted their reply.
Maybe (and I don't know if this is even possible) the ProZ people can delete the "Moderator" tag only for the Kudoz section?

I would only add to my comment that people who have something to complain about, not only do so, but also come up with a solution suggestion. It's very easy to complain and not making the effort of thinking on how to solve what bothers you.

Cheers, back to work!

Elinor

[Edited at 2003-07-01 13:29]


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Andres Pacheco  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:05
English to Spanish
+ ...
No objection to participation in Kudoz Jul 1, 2003

I see no problem with the participation of moderators in Kudoz, on the contrary.

Maybe the assigning of points to them has to do with the fact that they have more "reliability" as Internet IDs, given that their identities have been checked, they have access to restricted aspects of the site, etc. They may also get more points because they are more active and more often in the site, since they have an additional role in this community.

Also, it may be nice to see, if possible, what are the numbers. What's the percentage of Kudoz awarded to moderators? 10%? 90%? What percentage of active users of Proz.com are moderators? Is the result of a comparison too biased towards moderators? If so, then we may start discussing why.

About Kudoz, I tend to put more weight into whether my answer adds something to those previously presented instead of whether I have chances to the points. Ok, points are an issue, they get you up on the list and help clients perceive how's your general knowledge. But I do not refrain from researching or commenting if I think I may add to the discussion regarding the word in question. I think that's a big part of Kudoz. Getting the points is also nice, but not the only thing at stake.

I think moderators add a lot of insight to those discussions. Therefore, it would be detrimental to the quality of answers to prevent them from participating.

That's all for now; I have to finish my coffee.

Later,

Andrés


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 05:05
SITE FOUNDER
Most moderators stood out in KudoZ before becoming moderators Jul 1, 2003

Andrés Pacheco wrote:
Maybe the assigning of points to them has to do with the fact that they have more "reliability" as Internet IDs, given that their identities have been checked, they have access to restricted aspects of the site, etc. They may also get more points because they are more active and more often in the site, since they have an additional role in this community.


The cause-and-effect relationship is actually the reverse. People stand out when they are active in (and good at) KudoZ. If they display a collaborative and moderate attitude, they may be asked if they are interested in serving as moderators.

Some say yes, some say no. But it would be strange to require people who accept the role to discontinue their KudoZ activities.


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xxxmax
Local time: 02:05
English to Dutch
+ ...
Moderators and KudoZ points... Jul 1, 2003

I see moderators as referees, moderators or judges. It would be better not to award moderators the KudoZ points since they are acting as examiners. Examiners never get awarded, or am I wrong? But on the other hand, if the moderator's answer is the best one, it is ultimately up to the asker to award the points to the best answer among the choices present.

What participants must do, is try to be impartial in his/her election and not let himself/herself be guided by subjectivism and friendship.

I propose that moderators participate in KudoZ when they are off-duty.

Have a good one,

Cristina


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 11:05
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
No mod tag shown in KudoZ Jul 1, 2003

Elinor Thomas wrote:

Maybe (and I don't know if this is even possible) the ProZ people can delete the "Moderator" tag only for the Kudoz section?


Hi Elinor,

A moderator in KudoZ hasn't any special tag next to her / his name. It is clear that if you click on the name, you'll read moderator on the profile page.

Personally, when I act as moderator (and not as normal KudoZer) in the KudoZ area, I write Moderator: in front of my moderator's comments (never used for agreeing or disagreeing with an answer, but only for "moderation/ing" duties!). Any other comment without that moderator: is for myself, as private KudoZer.

Giuliana


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Elinor Thomas  Identity Verified
Local time: 06:05
English to Spanish
+ ...
Thanks Giuliana :-) Jul 1, 2003

Giuliana Buscaglione wrote:

Hi Elinor,

A moderator in KudoZ hasn't any special tag next to her / his name. It is clear that if you click on the name, you'll read moderator on the profile page.

Personally, when I act as moderator (and not as normal KudoZer) in the KudoZ area, I write Moderator: in front of my moderator's comments (never used for agreeing or disagreeing with an answer, but only for "moderation/ing" duties!). Any other comment without that moderator: is for myself, as private KudoZer.

Giuliana


As you can see, I don't even look if the answer I choose comes from a moderator or not.


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