| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Obvious Kudoz questions from people claiming to be able to translate into English Thread poster: Tom in London
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:20
Member (2008)
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:
See this thread a few months back:
Marie-Hélène. that thread is all about questions that don't have enough context.
That wasn't my point.
My point is about questions asking for translations of really obvious words that any competent translator should be able to deal with unaided.
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... the fact that the Kudoz rule in question refers to "dictionaries" and "only after other resources have been exhausted" would cover the "really obvious words" part, IMO!
As it is, all we can do is vote (or mark them directly, for those who have editing rights) as non-Pro.
In any case, I linked to that previous thread because it discusses the prohibition of mentioning rule 2.1 to Kudoz askers, not its relevance to your initial point.
[Edited at 2... See more ... the fact that the Kudoz rule in question refers to "dictionaries" and "only after other resources have been exhausted" would cover the "really obvious words" part, IMO!
As it is, all we can do is vote (or mark them directly, for those who have editing rights) as non-Pro.
In any case, I linked to that previous thread because it discusses the prohibition of mentioning rule 2.1 to Kudoz askers, not its relevance to your initial point.
[Edited at 2008-12-09 22:35 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Russell Jones 
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:20
Italian to English
| A supporter of the present system | Dec 9, 2008 |
I really don't care if people ask obvious questions. I don't have to answer them and don't feel in competition for points with those do. A free for all encourages the greatest number of options in the glossary and, if I can't weed out the grain from the chaff, I shouldn't be in this profession.
If there were the option to quash what appear to some as obvious questions, I can see subtleties and contexts being totally overlooked by power-hungry or opinionated respondents. We all need he... See more I really don't care if people ask obvious questions. I don't have to answer them and don't feel in competition for points with those do. A free for all encourages the greatest number of options in the glossary and, if I can't weed out the grain from the chaff, I shouldn't be in this profession.
If there were the option to quash what appear to some as obvious questions, I can see subtleties and contexts being totally overlooked by power-hungry or opinionated respondents. We all need help sometimes with basic words in unusual contexts or specific phrases.
[Edited at 2008-12-09 22:38 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Khrystene (X)
Australia
Polish to English
+ ...
Marina Soldati wrote:
It´s up to us to stop answering ten questions in a row for any "colleague" who has accepted work he/she can´t handle.
Regards,
Marina
That's something I've learnt very quickly. And wholeheartedly agree.
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Khrystene (X)
Australia
Polish to English
+ ...
| Subtleties are often overlooked | Dec 9, 2008 |
Russell Jones wrote:
I can see subtleties and contexts being totally overlooked by power-hungry or opinionated respondents. We all need help sometimes with basic words in unusual contexts or specific phrases.
Also a very valid point. I have found though, in the few situations I've come across, a non-acceptance of the subtleties by the non English natives who are translating.
Mind you, I've also found that the clarifications can sometimes leave a lot to be desired.
Live and learn.
| | | | Susan Welsh
United States
Local time: 09:20
Russian to English
+ ...
| Agree with Russell | Dec 9, 2008 |
Russell Jones wrote:
I really don't care if people ask obvious questions. I don't have to answer them and don't feel in competition for points with those do. A free for all encourages the greatest number of options in the glossary and, if I can't weed out the grain from the chaff, I shouldn't be in this profession.
If there were the option to quash what appear to some as obvious questions, I can see subtleties and contexts being totally overlooked by power-hungry or opinionated respondents. We all need help sometimes with basic words in unusual contexts or specific phrases.
[Edited at 2008-12-09 22:38 GMT]
Thank you, Russell, for your kindly and dignified formulation. I, for one, have asked my share of stupid questions and given my share of stupid answers. I am not stupid, however; I am on a learning curve, not bilingual, and determined to make progress despite the fact that I have not lived for more than a few months in countries that speak my target languages. I find KudoZ a great boon when I am asking, fun when I am trying to answer. I am grateful to those who have helped me in my linguistic struggles.
Susan
| | | | | The other side of the coin.... | Dec 9, 2008 |
...is that if there are too many questions, then it is very easy to overlook the interesting, challenging and perceptive ones in the flurry of utter dross from those too idle or bone-headed to look things up for themselves.
When that happens, the Askers are the main losers, as they don't get answers from people who might have noticed the question if there were only 5 a day, not 25 a day.
All well and good, you might think, for those Askers who have posted upwards of a 1,000 qu... See more ...is that if there are too many questions, then it is very easy to overlook the interesting, challenging and perceptive ones in the flurry of utter dross from those too idle or bone-headed to look things up for themselves.
When that happens, the Askers are the main losers, as they don't get answers from people who might have noticed the question if there were only 5 a day, not 25 a day.
All well and good, you might think, for those Askers who have posted upwards of a 1,000 questions and answered a mere handful. I agree.
It's dashed annoying however, for the occasional Askers who really need proper help and see their questions shoot off the first page inside 30 seconds.
I can see the quantity argument. But I prefer quality in this case. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Robin Salmon (X)
Australia
Local time: 23:20
German to English
+ ...
| Don't answer such questions | Dec 10, 2008 |
As a few people have pointed out, getting ProZ admin to do something would probably not have much effect in the end.
My blood boils when I think about the possible scenario behind such questions. Young person with poor skills in written English - agency employing them because they will do the job cheaply - end customer not too bothered about quality as the translation is only intended for his company's branch in UK and he is getting a cheap price, too.
What annoys me m... See more As a few people have pointed out, getting ProZ admin to do something would probably not have much effect in the end.
My blood boils when I think about the possible scenario behind such questions. Young person with poor skills in written English - agency employing them because they will do the job cheaply - end customer not too bothered about quality as the translation is only intended for his company's branch in UK and he is getting a cheap price, too.
What annoys me most is that experienced, conscientious translators are losing jobs to "work thieves" and that poor translations are being produced, which reflects badly on our industry.
I take comfort from the fact that outsourcers are increasingly asking for native speakers of the target language. There may be a dearth of those people but I imagine the possibility of the following exchange occurring and take heart that outsourcers will usually still look for quality as a priority:
"Hey Jack, did you read that translation Brummbergers sent across from Germany! If you want a laugh, read it but if you want to know how to use that new conveyor, don't bother!
"Yes, I read it and am none the wiser! I think the boss is sending over for another translation. Meanwhile, I hope we don't have any disasters with the new machine!"
As I say, the practical solution is just not to answer questions from people who should not be doing the translation in the first place. ▲ Collapse
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Balasubramaniam L.
India
Local time: 18:50
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Asker's ingenuity | Dec 10, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
Without getting into much detail, can we, ... quash [the] questions ...?
I have noticed a curious thing in the English-Hindi forum, which speaks volumes of the resourcefulness of the prozians when they are clamped down upon for such behaviour.
Many English-monolingual questions are appearing in the English-Hindi forum and are being answered enthusiastically (or naively?) by the prozians in that language pair. One recent asker wanted to know in a "proz" level question the meaning of "Whatsup" !!! and elicited 8 answers!!!!
I don't know whether this is a trend limited to the English-Hindi pair or is found in other pairs also where English is the source language.
It is probable that facing stiff opposition to such inane questions in the English monolingual forum, as exampled by Viktoria's comment above, the ingenious askers are turning to bilingual forums with English as the first language, knowing that the people there too would have sufficient knowledge of English, and perhaps also the inclination, to answer these questions.
This merits investigation, so that we can devise more fool-proof measures to thwart the ingenuity of the askers.
| | | | Barbara Toffolon (X)
Italy
Local time: 15:20
Italian to English
+ ...
| Leave them enough rope and......zac! they hang themselves | Dec 10, 2008 |
I agree with Tom, it is rather unfair, however I have found that in most cases the "self-nominated translation experts" fall over their own mistakes. Many have been the times when I have found myself working on another "translator's" work because the agency did not consider it professional. I'll bet that they will not being receiving too many offers from the customers they cheated. It's a little like the old Chinese sitting on the banks of the river waiting for the corpse of his enemy to float... See more I agree with Tom, it is rather unfair, however I have found that in most cases the "self-nominated translation experts" fall over their own mistakes. Many have been the times when I have found myself working on another "translator's" work because the agency did not consider it professional. I'll bet that they will not being receiving too many offers from the customers they cheated. It's a little like the old Chinese sitting on the banks of the river waiting for the corpse of his enemy to float by. It takes alot of patients but honesty is always one step ahead.
[Modificato alle 2008-12-10 08:32 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Paul Adie (X)
Germany
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Yep, the same for ES and RU - EN | Dec 10, 2008 |
This will be the same for all language pairs I suppose. There was one person claiming to be a fabulous RU - EN translator a while back, but the person was unable to translate a very simple phrase. It turned out that this supposed 'native' was in fact a native Russian speaker. The same is happening in the ES - EN pair, with several questions flowing in from individual members about the most obvious things, or questions that could have been solved easily with a little dictionary/internet/glossary ... See more This will be the same for all language pairs I suppose. There was one person claiming to be a fabulous RU - EN translator a while back, but the person was unable to translate a very simple phrase. It turned out that this supposed 'native' was in fact a native Russian speaker. The same is happening in the ES - EN pair, with several questions flowing in from individual members about the most obvious things, or questions that could have been solved easily with a little dictionary/internet/glossary research. I don't answer such questions, but I think it just shows them off in a bad light, so I don't worry too much. It does annoy me that people constantly offer answers though, but what can I do? I have more important things to worry about. Talking of which...
Happy translating!
Paul ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Filter and forget | Dec 10, 2008 |
Similar problems crop up frequently in the Spanish > English pair, so what I've started doing is simply to block those people who ask huge numbers of questions (easy or otherwise) in an enormous range of fields but refuse to help anyone else. For example, one of my filtered questioners has asked several thousand questions but not answered a single one! I don't see any way that I or anybody else can get him to alter his behaviour, and he won't be kicked off the site as he's a paying member, so I ... See more Similar problems crop up frequently in the Spanish > English pair, so what I've started doing is simply to block those people who ask huge numbers of questions (easy or otherwise) in an enormous range of fields but refuse to help anyone else. For example, one of my filtered questioners has asked several thousand questions but not answered a single one! I don't see any way that I or anybody else can get him to alter his behaviour, and he won't be kicked off the site as he's a paying member, so I just filter and forget. Perhaps if other people followed the same principle then he might begin to struggle....
Andy ▲ Collapse
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| Help the needy | Dec 10, 2008 |
Marina Soldati wrote:
It´s up to us to stop answering ten questions in a row for any "colleague" who has accepted work he/she can´t handle.
Couldn't agree more; however, there are instances when the Asker is obviously a beginner, and I don't see any harm in giving him/her a hand, especially if the source text is full of colloquialisms.
As a matter of pride and principle, most professional translators would refrain from asking too many questions, or from requesting help with simple terms, unless unclear in a certain context. That leaves beginners/newcomers, and idle or incompetent translators. It doesn't take long for Askers to sort themselves into these categories. And for us to act accordingly.
I guess we all feel indebted towards generous colleagues who invariably come to the rescue; if they, too, are occasionally too busy, or too tired, to do their own research, owing perhaps to a tight deadline, I gladly give them a hand if I can. There are times when you're so exhausted that you can't think clearly, and you might even ask a stupid question. It's certainly happened to me, more than once, and doubtless it will happen again. And when it does, I hope someone will take pity! I hate to think what life would be without Kudoz.
Have a nice day.
Sarah
| | | | Dana Rinaldi
Italy
Local time: 15:20
Member
Italian to English
+ ...
I totally agree with Sarah. If I have time I reply and try to help others. I'm sure I have asked silly questions from time to time. Deadlines are usually tight and that word or phrase is there on the tip of my tongue and the quickest option is to ask for help.
I do not judge. It is not my business if someone is incompetent, can't use a dictionary or claims to be something he/she isn't. I've gained quite a few easy points thanks to these Askers (never know but they might come in han... See more I totally agree with Sarah. If I have time I reply and try to help others. I'm sure I have asked silly questions from time to time. Deadlines are usually tight and that word or phrase is there on the tip of my tongue and the quickest option is to ask for help.
I do not judge. It is not my business if someone is incompetent, can't use a dictionary or claims to be something he/she isn't. I've gained quite a few easy points thanks to these Askers (never know but they might come in handy one day and maybe I could trade them in for the Aston Martin of my dreams).
In my opinion there is no problem with this. Kudoz is an invaluable tool for all of us. I am more irritated by answers given just for the sake of replying by members who don't even work within my language pairs, or those long pedantic discussions that go on and on between some "I know all" colleagues.
And Sarah may I thank you for your help, I can always count on you! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Amy Duncan (X)
Brazil
Local time: 10:20
Portuguese to English
+ ...
| Hungry for points and the "P" issue | Dec 10, 2008 |
It seems to me that now that we have the "Pro" status, some people will answer every single question that pops up, regardless of the subject matter, in order to get as many points as possible, believing that it makes them more eligible for Pro status (although it seems to me that this might backfire, since it makes the answerer look as though he/she has way too much time on his/her hands).
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