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Under what circumstances can a moderator use "Edit glossary entry" link?
Thread poster: Özden Arıkan

Özden Arıkan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:46
Member
English to Turkish
+ ...
May 5, 2009

We have a wrong Glossary entry at Kudoz. Wrong as in "It must be wrong, and not rong;" NOT as in "It must be wrong, and not incorrect." We cannot get the moderators correct it, they say they may not act as linguistic authorities. I believe a style guide is a linguistic authority, though. So, can this Glossary entry be corrected based on the authority of a style guide exercised by a moderator, or not? And if not, what are we doing about a wrong Glossary entry?



Adding next day: Now that we've found the boiling point, I'm editing the title, which was "What do we do exactly about wrong Glossary entries?"icon_smile.gif

[Edited at 2009-05-06 07:25 GMT]


 

foghorn
English to Turkish
+ ...
absolutely May 5, 2009

You’re absolutely right. My impression is that that part of the site is used for many other purposes than just simply building a glossary. If somebody can raise some communal consensus at least not to enter every response to that database, it would look better though still as incorrect as it is.

 

Amy Taylor  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:46
Member (2002)
Italian to English
KudoZ is a community effort May 5, 2009

I understand your frustration, but the moderators are abstaining here for a reason. KudoZ is a community effort, and is not "policed" for correctness by ProZ.com or its moderators. People consulting the KudoZ glossaries and entries should not treat them as if they were edited and published dictionaries (which, in turn, no translator should trust implicity of course).

In many cases, in fact, KudoZ entries are far superior to dictionary entries, providing a great deal more context and current information, while in other cases the entries are just dead wrong. All users of KudoZ information would do well to keep in mind that KudoZ entries are suggestions provided by other translators, and to value them accordingly.

When I see an entry in my own pair from a translator I know and respect, I am much more likely to adopt that term in my own translation. Often, however, I decide to disregard the answers provided, sometimes in part because of the input provided by others in the form of additional context, "disagrees", and alternate answers that were not selected by the asker (for this reason I often find the original question to be more useful than the resulting glossary entry).

If the moderators were to step in here and impose "linguistic authority", they would be violating the spirit of KudoZ and opening floodgates of additional work for themselves in the form of complaints - often justified! - about incorrect entries. If the entry is clearly as wrong as 'rong', then any translator who uses it will surely be out of job fairly quickly.

Best,

Amy


 

Özden Arıkan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:46
Member
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Please don't read into my message May 5, 2009

Dear 'foghorn', thank you for your comment, but I didn't make a statement, so I can't be right or wrong. And thank you, dear Amy, but I didn't express frustration, so I don't understand what you believe you understand exactly. I asked a question, after briefly explaining the circumstances that led me to ask this question. I insist that it is a simple and straightforward question, and I expect an answer from whoever has the authority to answer this.

For an example that could be understood by everyone: if glosary was entered in the English Kudoz glossary, would it be possible to correct it or not? And if not, has the link "Edit this glossary entry" I remember from my time as a moderator been removed? If it has not been removed, what is it for?

I had deliberately kept my initial message short to avoid starting yet another Kudoz debate, but still, thank you Amy for summing up the POV of one of the two main schools of thought on Kudoz. I hope my question gets answered before the other one arrives and my deliberation proves futileicon_smile.gif

If the moderators were to step in here and impose "linguistic authority", they would be violating the spirit of KudoZ and opening floodgates of additional work for themselves in the form of complaints - often justified! - about incorrect entries. If the entry is clearly as wrong as 'rong', then any translator who uses it will surely be out of job fairly quickly.


However, since your final comments made me feel that I must provide a reason why I want to have a misspelling corrected so badly, I will add this without waiting the other school's arrival: if that story is no urban legend, I don't give a damn if one particular Japanese to English translator was left out of job fairly quickly or not after August 1945.


 

Amy Taylor  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:46
Member (2002)
Italian to English
Is physical danger or harm imminent? May 5, 2009

If you think that this particular misspelling is likely to lead to such a disaster as the one you mention, or perhaps that it might lead a translator to use the wrong (and not merely misspelled) term in a translation for, say, an urgent pediatric medical procedure, then you should state this explicitly in your petition to the moderator.

Amy


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:46
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Are we talking about a simple typo here? May 5, 2009

I am confused. Is it an issue about something that could be spelled different ways (depending on whatever: old rules vs. new rules of spelling, differences in regional dialects, or just a simple typo?

If it is a simple typo in the target term, I don't understand why would it be such a big deal to fix it.
First of all, the two parties involved (the asker and the answerer whose answer was accepted) has the right any time after closing the question to edit the glossary entry.
Özden, have you pointed out the typo for the asker and/or the answerer, and have they declined to correct it?
Has the moderator declined to fix the typo?


 

Amy Taylor  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:46
Member (2002)
Italian to English
Excellent suggestion, Katalin May 5, 2009

A perfectly simple solution.icon_smile.gif

 

Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:46
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Correction of typos doesn't fall under "linguistic authority" category May 6, 2009

Hi Özden,

As far as I recall from a previous forum discussion in which staff were involved (I'm unable to locate it right now), simple typos have never been subject to the rule stating that "moderators do not act as linguistic authorities". It has always been good practice to correct typos on the spot, without further ado.

Steffen


 

Özden Arıkan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:46
Member
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
All these have been tried; that's why I'm here May 6, 2009

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

I am confused. Is it an issue about something that could be spelled different ways (depending on whatever: old rules vs. new rules of spelling, differences in regional dialects, or just a simple typo?

If it is a simple typo in the target term, I don't understand why would it be such a big deal to fix it.
First of all, the two parties involved (the asker and the answerer whose answer was accepted) has the right any time after closing the question to edit the glossary entry.
Özden, have you pointed out the typo for the asker and/or the answerer, and have they declined to correct it?
Has the moderator declined to fix the typo?



Hi Katalin,

It is a misspelling, as I explained above.
It was pointed out to the asker by another answerer.
I was the second person, to my knowledge, to contact the moderator.
The moderator knows it's a misspelling.
The moderator's interpretation of the "mods are no linguistic authorities" precludes correction.
My interpretation would not. And as a side note, I have always interpreted the rule the way I do now and did correct many many, but really many Glossary entries in the past that included typos, misspellings, or wrong characters (non-Turkish characters, this is the language I'm talking about, by the way)
I am wondering what the going interpretation among moderators is and I would like to have an answer to my two questions above from the staff; namely, does this rule cover typos, misspellings, wrong characters, etc., too, and if it does, again, what is the "Edit glossary entry" link for?
Sorry for the dangling preposition, I love them, though.
Yes, why is there a live function to edit Glossary entries? This function is accessible to 1) the asker, 2) the answerer whose suggestion was chosen, and 3) to moderators. So, if it is accessible to moderators, it must be meant to be used by them, too. Under what circumstances can a moderator use "Edit glossary entry" link?

Yes, found it at last. It all boils down to this question: Under what circumstances can a moderator use "Edit glossary entry" link?

Staff, thanks for enlightening us!

Adding 1 min later: Steffen, thanks for enlightening us, too!icon_smile.gif

[Edited at 2009-05-06 07:12 GMT]


 

liz askew  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:46
Member (2007)
French to English
+ ...
Ozden May 6, 2009

Hello there

I love your succinctness and clarity in getting your point across. A rare talent these days.

I love it:-) No waffle and clear as a bell!

Don't go into politics though, they would make a meal out of you:-)

Liz Askew

p.s. I apologise for missing off the accent in your name, but am unable to put it in due to technical incompetence!

[Edited at 2009-05-06 07:19 GMT]


 

Özden Arıkan  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 16:46
Member
English to Turkish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you, Liz May 6, 2009

liz askew wrote:

Hello there

I love your succinctness and clarity in getting your point across. A rare talent these days.

I love it:-) No waffle and clear as a bell!

Don't go into politics though, they would make a meal out of you:-)

Liz Askew

p.s. I apologise for missing off the accent in your name, but am unable to put it in due to technical incompetence!

[Edited at 2009-05-06 07:19 GMT]



How nice to get a compliment from a lovely colleague on such a terrible day (I hate rain in May, in addition to the other eleven monthsicon_biggrin.gif) Feel free to type my name whatever way you can type it, just know that there is no accent there: my Ö is a standalone letter with a life and personality of its own, not an accented form of O which I find... (oh, let me better shut up before offending an Olivia or Osman)icon_cool.gif

(P.S. Let me know if you don't want your name to be capitalized.)


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:46
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
This is a Mod's misinterpretation of "linguistic authority" May 6, 2009

Thanks for the answers to my question, Özden.
Here is how I see it now:
Question: "Under what circumstances can a moderator use "Edit glossary entry" link?"
Answer:
1. If the entry contains a typo
2. ...
3. ...

I do not know what 2, 3 etc. would entail (if any), although I suspect if either the asker or answerer request a change that they cannot make for whatever technical reason, the Mod can help them.

I have always interpreted the rule the way I do now and did correct many many, but really many Glossary entries in the past that included typos, misspellings, or wrong characters


So did I.

Correcting a typo is such a trivial thing, I can't believe we are even discussing it. Of course, a Moderator should be able to fix that. Takes about 3 seconds?
No reason to waste staff resources with support requests, or to ponder whether it has a harmful consequence and such. For Heaven's sake, it's a TYPO!!!

I cannot imagine any harm done by a Mod's correction of a typo - it only improves the Glossary. It is not simply a cosmetic improvement, but functional.
A typo can prevent the search function to find the term, so it is not a matter of whether a translator would notice that rong should be wrong, because he/she may not find it at all when searching.

Katalin


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 11:46
SITE STAFF
Moderator intervention in KudoZ and glossaries May 6, 2009

Hello all,

Moderators may correct typos, yes. I'll post here a section of the current KudoZ moderator manual:


KudoZ moderators also have some duties in the KudoZ glossaries such as correcting typos or non-answer entries such as “Please see below”.

Replacing a glossary entry made by another should be done only exceptionally, and with the agreement of the asker. Remember that moderators are not supposed to act as linguistic authorities on the site.


For help with specific entries or for issues with moderators, the channel to use it the support system.

Best regards,

Jared


 

Amy Taylor  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 08:46
Member (2002)
Italian to English
What did the asker and the moderator say? May 6, 2009

I'm curious: why does the asker prefer to not fix the entry? Why does the moderator not want to fix it if it's so trivial?

Amy


 

NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 10:46
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
The KoG is not the definitive glossary; we have personal glossaries as well May 7, 2009

Jared wrote:

Hello all,

Moderators may correct typos, yes. I'll post here a section of the current KudoZ moderator manual:


KudoZ moderators also have some duties in the KudoZ glossaries such as correcting typos or non-answer entries such as “Please see below”.

Replacing a glossary entry made by another should be done only exceptionally, and with the agreement of the asker. Remember that moderators are not supposed to act as linguistic authorities on the site.


For help with specific entries or for issues with moderators, the channel to use it the support system.

Best regards,

Jared


However, it is possible to create a separate glossary entry in a personal glossary using the preferred term, which will appear in a KudoZ search if the appropriate box is ticked.

Nancy

[Edited at 2009-05-07 14:29 GMT]


 
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