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Missleading new KudoZ invention for early grading
Thread poster: Roland Nienerza

Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

Local time: 21:51
English to German
+ ...
Aug 7, 2009

I had posted a KudoZ question for sentence understanding. - I got two answers within a few hours - one of which is very much to the point and very helpful. With that I got all the assistance I needed. And as I dislike myself that some askers put off grading for weeks I wanted to close the question, with grading, immediately. - Because a correct sentence translation can hardly be topped.

There had been previously the hint that one should wait 24 hours to get more answers for a question. - This might be good for Wikiwords or the like. - But 24 hours can be a long time for a pressing job.

Now there is a new invention. There are now two "options" given for an "early grader". The "recommendation" to wait 24 hours has been changed into a "compulsory prescription". Or one is, in a very unclear manner, told to leave grading to the community - something that is for me a mixture of a joke and an outrage.

I have very often seen incredibly ludicrous answers - which nonetheless often got ludicrously many agrees. - And therefore I would never put it to a plebiscite which answer I want to be graded or not.

As there were only two options - to wait the full 24 hours or to leave for the community to grade - I was a bit at a loss. - Why is there not a third option - "Choose to grade immediately as you got the right answer."

As for the second option, the grading box was open as before - and therefore I gave the points to the right answer, thanked the anserer - and thought I had done for.

But to my surprise I see that I was quite misled. - And instead of having graded myself I have given grading to a lottery or a free for all - the good, the bad and the completely ignorant and uninformed.

I did not mean to leave this to a "popular" vote. I had been taken off guards by a new invention that puts the asker for early grading between nothing better than a rock and a hard place. -

I wish to have the freedom to grade myself in this concrete case.

And I propose that the new restricting invention be corrected.

I had not asked a question for months on end. - I was not aware of this invention - and I consider it - similar to the now corrected separation of "questions to asker" and "discussion" - as a very unsuitable patronizing of the asker.


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Luisa Ramos, CT  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:51
Member (2004)
English to Spanish
Amen Aug 7, 2009

In addition, I, for one, once in the blue moon that I ask a question do not have the time (or the memory) to return to grading it after 24 hours, upon which the "popular" vote would prevail, however wrong.

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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:51
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
In agreement - option to grade within 24 hours should be restored Aug 7, 2009

I am in agreement with Roland that the option to grade within the first 24 hours should be restored, and that the idea of leaving the awarding of points to a "plebiscite" is not a good idea. The asker is (or at least should be) in the best position to determine what the most helpful answer has been.

Moreover, in our often busy lives, it would be nice to be able to grade questions when we think about it, rather than have to "wait 24 hours." In any case, casual observation suggests that, within a popular language pair, very few answers are offered after the first 4 hours, and thus the compulsory waiting requirement is rather pointless within such pairs.

Bob

[Edited at 2009-08-07 14:30 GMT]


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R.S.
Local time: 21:51
English to Polish
+ ...
Restore the option Aug 7, 2009

Robert Forstag wrote:

I am in agreement with Roland that the option to grade within the first 24 hours should be restored, and that the idea of leaving the awarding of points to a "plebiscite" is not a good idea.
Bob

[Edited at 2009-08-07 14:30 GMT]


I agree with Robert and Roland ! ( or shorten the minimum period , e.g. 6 hours )


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Patricia Rosas  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:51
Spanish to English
+ ...
My KudoZ page? Aug 7, 2009

Hi, friends,

While I don't disagree with Bob, Luisa, and Roland, I'd like to point out a couple of things:

When I'm on an urgent deadline, and I see the "right" answer, I use it and send my translation forward. Then ...

about once a week, when I've got a bit of spare time, I go to the My KudoZ window under the My ProZ tab on ProZ's main page.

One of the five tabs on the My KudoZ page is: "My Open Questions".

I click on it, and if I have any (and sometimes, I confess, I have a stack of) questions, I just grade them all, and I'm done with it.

So, "remembering" that you asked a question isn't necessary, since the site can do it for you.

Patricia


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:51
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Long discussion with 37 people saying the same thing - it didn't matter Aug 7, 2009

Hi Roland,
This new feature was actively discussed when it was invented two months ago. Many of us expressed the same views as you did here. We thought leaving the grading to the "community" is a bad idea.
In spite of that, the "feature" is still there - including the faulty algorithm for picking the "winner", when two answers get the same number of net agrees.

What it is, is essentially forbidding closing questions within 24 hours. It is simply impossible, questions are forced to stay open for 24 hours. None of the Rules state this. It is still a "recommendation", but in fact, it is a hard-wired rule, enforced by the system.

You can see the past three threads at these links:

http://www.proz.com/topic/136495

http://www.proz.com/topic/137585

http://www.proz.com/topic/137677


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Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

Local time: 21:51
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Katalin - Aug 7, 2009

for once at least we hold a completely identical view on a matter.

It is restrictive, as you say and as I said, and it is flawed in addition.


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Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

Local time: 21:51
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@ Patricia - Aug 7, 2009



When I'm on an urgent deadline, and I see the "right" answer, I use it and send my translation forward. Then ...

about once a week, when I've got a bit of spare time, I go to the My KudoZ window under the My ProZ tab on ProZ's main page.

One of the five tabs on the My KudoZ page is: "My Open Questions".

I click on it, and if I have any (and sometimes, I confess, I have a stack of) questions, I just grade them all, and I'm done with it.



Well, Patricia, this shows that you have a very "orderly" system to handle this.

But please be aware that other people have other systems, orderly or not.

And no one asks that you should not have the choice to apply your system.

All that is necessary is that - as before - there should still be the option for the asker to grade when he thinks fit. I had been in situations where I got, and even - though less frequently ;-/ - where I gave the very right answer in little more than a minute, and the whole process - query, answer, grading - was done and over in less than five minutes.

And of course, the option to have grading done by "the community" and on the basis of an algorithm, might be given - as an option. But that cannont be chosen by the system against the will of the asker.

[Edited at 2009-08-07 15:43 GMT]


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Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:51
English to Slovak
+ ...
I would welcome only two options... Aug 7, 2009

1. Close your question whenever you get the answer you are looking for and is most suitable for you.
2. Close question automatically without grading after seven days and marked it as such, with the option for asker to re-open it in the future if he/she wishes to grade it.

There would be no need for automatic reminders "Please select the most helpful answer" or e-mails from moderator to do so. Asker should be allowed to close the question at a time convenient for her/him.


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Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

Local time: 21:51
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Proposal one is indeed - Aug 7, 2009

a very practical approach. -

The freedom given to the asker to close without grading is also very relevant.

But a short reminder that a question needs still a decision whether to be graded or closed without grading will certainly be welcome for most askers who - for what ever reason - had postponed and forgotten about the matter.


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AnneMarieG  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 21:51
Member (2009)
German to French
+ ...
Yes Aug 7, 2009

I agree completely - the asker is sometimes looking for a specific term; when the right answer is there, there is no point of bothering everybody by leaving the question open.


Besides, as Robert says, after 4 hours at the most 'busy' language pairs do not get a lot of visitors anymore.

I haven't seen any reason why this "third" possibility is not given - simply.

Anyhow, I am glad KudoZ exists, it allows to come to know some colleagues and to get some practical and quick help!

Have a nice weekend,

Anne-Marie


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Amy Duncan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 18:51
Portuguese to English
+ ...
To Patricia Aug 7, 2009

Patricia Rosas wrote:

One of the five tabs on the My KudoZ page is: "My Open Questions".


How do you create such a tab?


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Rad Graban  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:51
English to Slovak
+ ...
Maybe... Aug 7, 2009

Roland Nienerza wrote:
But a short reminder that a question needs still a decision whether to be graded or closed without grading will certainly be welcome for most askers who - for what ever reason - had postponed and forgotten about the matter.


Maybe. But if the answer is really worth it, I wouldn't need a reminder. Or, to put it differently, I don't need a reminder to thank or to express my gratitude in some other way to a person who has helped me. I can remember things like that for life. He/she may get KudoZ points years later, but they will. :~)

[Edited at 2009-08-07 18:55 GMT]


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Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

Local time: 21:51
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
"Open questions" tab Aug 7, 2009

Amy Duncan wrote:

Patricia Rosas wrote:

One of the five tabs on the My KudoZ page is: "My Open Questions".


How do you create such a tab?



It is on "My KudoZ" - to be clicked from the start page drop-down "KudoZ". -

Though the name of the tab is just "Open questions".


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Sarah Jane Webb  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:51
Italian to English
+ ...
my open questions Aug 7, 2009

Amy Duncan wrote:

Patricia Rosas wrote:

One of the five tabs on the My KudoZ page is: "My Open Questions".


How do you create such a tab?


Hi Amy,
I hope I didn't misunderstand your question.
Your open questions are listen in two places that I know of: one is in the My KudoZ page (an option in the drop-down Kudoz menu, and the other is on the left-hand margin of the Kudoz latest questions page, under your KudoZ points.
Have a great summer.
Sarah


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