| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | New interface and willingness to answer KudoZ questions Thread poster: Anthony Green
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| I did not want to take any points away from you | Oct 2, 2003 |
I do not mean to disagree with the usefulness of your suggestion, but I have a small remark that you should consider. I myself enjoy the Q&A feature of Proz, but I am not a free-lance translator. I work as an in-house translator for a software company. Therefore I have no use for the KoduZ I earn. After having earned a few, I felt a bit guilty about taking these points away from free-lancers that could use them. So I stopped taking part in the KudoZ system. I seldom used it anymore, unless I was... See more I do not mean to disagree with the usefulness of your suggestion, but I have a small remark that you should consider. I myself enjoy the Q&A feature of Proz, but I am not a free-lance translator. I work as an in-house translator for a software company. Therefore I have no use for the KoduZ I earn. After having earned a few, I felt a bit guilty about taking these points away from free-lancers that could use them. So I stopped taking part in the KudoZ system. I seldom used it anymore, unless I was sure I had the right answer and others might not.
In the meanwhile things have changed, I am going to start a free-lance activity soon, so I have to started to join in again. But I am sure that the situation is the same for other people. So please bear in mind that there may be a reason why people are not so active in the KudoZ field... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Anthony Green 
Italy
Local time: 21:17
Italian to English
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TOPIC STARTER | Who writes dictionaries anyway? | Oct 2, 2003 |
Dictionaries are written by people very like ourselves, competent linguists with an interest in meaning. However, they are very often fallible, outdated, incomplete, just like their compilers.
Most of my questions I ask arise because the dictionary definition is either missing or unconvincing or inappropriate in the specific context.
I used to have a test for Italian-English dictionaries, which was to look at the bird names in both languages. Many of them were hopelessly outda... See more Dictionaries are written by people very like ourselves, competent linguists with an interest in meaning. However, they are very often fallible, outdated, incomplete, just like their compilers.
Most of my questions I ask arise because the dictionary definition is either missing or unconvincing or inappropriate in the specific context.
I used to have a test for Italian-English dictionaries, which was to look at the bird names in both languages. Many of them were hopelessly outdated until a few years ago, and i they happened to be correct, this gave an idea of the thoroughness of the compilation which had taken place.
The consequences an be terrible. I was recently proud to receive the English version of a nature video from a talented Italian film-maker - the film was ruined by the use of an outdated dictionary, so that all of the species names came out sounding like 18th century hunting slang! He wanted me to send it to broadcasters in Britain to see if they would show it, and I had to tell him why it wasn't worth it...
So it is nothing unusual if a dictionary definition can be very much improved.
Williamson wrote:
ever since I copied a definition from a standard dictionary and the answer was not chosen by the asker. If such an answer is not correct than I do not know what.
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| | | | Anthony Green
Italy
Local time: 21:17
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | What do KudoZ points earn you? | Oct 2, 2003 |
I must be missing something. Do KudoZ points earn me anything?
lisse wrote:
Therefore I have no use for the KoduZ I earn. After having earned a few, I felt a bit guilty about taking these points away from free-lancers that could use them. So I stopped taking part in the KudoZ system. I seldom used it anymore, unless I was sure I had the right answer and others might not.
| | | | Anthony Green
Italy
Local time: 21:17
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Being sure about the answer | Oct 2, 2003 |
I must say I wish more people were like you on this score, i.e. people who only answer when they are sure, at least at the Pro level.
Good luck with your new freelance career!
lisse wrote:
So I stopped taking part in the KudoZ system. I seldom used it anymore, unless I was sure I had the right answer and others might not.
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CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 21:17
French to English
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| Qualified answers do exist, you know ! | Oct 2, 2003 |
In response to those who say you should only answer when you are absolutely sure, I would say the following: Unless you take yourself for God, it is impossible to be absolutely sure. At times, I've thought I was, only to be proved wrong. Sometimes questions are poorly put but you sense the desperation of the asker and try - Good Samaritan - to offer something that might set them on a useful track or trigger a response from another translator. When I have done this sort of thing, I have always gi... See more In response to those who say you should only answer when you are absolutely sure, I would say the following: Unless you take yourself for God, it is impossible to be absolutely sure. At times, I've thought I was, only to be proved wrong. Sometimes questions are poorly put but you sense the desperation of the asker and try - Good Samaritan - to offer something that might set them on a useful track or trigger a response from another translator. When I have done this sort of thing, I have always given a low confidence level and stated what I am doing and why I am doing it.
I'm just amazed at some of the questions asked and some of the dogmatic answers given.
I too have been disappointed when I have given an answer I "knew" to be right only to have the asker select another answer I "knew" to be wrong. You really feel powerless in such cases. But that's life!
PS: I also have never seen the reference to the number of questions asked/answered by an "asker" ▲ Collapse
| | | | lien
Netherlands
Local time: 21:17
English to French
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| the commnunity | Oct 2, 2003 |
Anthony Green wrote: Dictionaries are written by people very like ourselves, competent linguists with an interest in meaning. However, they are very often fallible, outdated, incomplete, just like their compilers. Most of my questions I ask arise because the dictionary definition is either missing or unconvincing or inappropriate in the specific context. Williamson wrote:
ever since I copied a definition from a standard dictionary and the answer was not chosen by the asker. If such an answer is not correct than I do not know what.
We want the opinion of the living people of now, the ones who are native speakers and very often understand the nuances a dic does not.
| | | | | gracias, Claudia! | Oct 2, 2003 |
your screenshot showed that the figures are shown when one opens a KudoZ question. But besides clicking on "Switch to new design" in the upper left corner, I also have to click on "Switch to KudoZ Beta version"! And then click twice again to undo everything, because answering KudoZ with the new design makes my internet explorer crash each time on my Mac! So I'm afraid this fine improvement is not made for me!
| | | | Anthony Green
Italy
Local time: 21:17
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks for clarifying that point | Oct 2, 2003 |
Yes, of course, it's mainly the use of level 5 "Highest (I am sure)" for rather dubious answers (especially but not exclusively from non-natives and/or those without our language combinations) within minutes of asking difficult questions that perplexes. Lack of doubt is a great drawback, especially for a translator.
That said, I've noticed with pleasure a number of translation students participating, and they will surely be the excellent translators of tomorrow. If only KudoZ had be... See more Yes, of course, it's mainly the use of level 5 "Highest (I am sure)" for rather dubious answers (especially but not exclusively from non-natives and/or those without our language combinations) within minutes of asking difficult questions that perplexes. Lack of doubt is a great drawback, especially for a translator.
That said, I've noticed with pleasure a number of translation students participating, and they will surely be the excellent translators of tomorrow. If only KudoZ had been around 20 years ago when I was still at university!
Anthony
CMJ_Trans wrote:
In response to those who say you should only answer when you are absolutely sure, I would say the following: Unless you take yourself for God, it is impossible to be absolutely sure. At times, I've thought I was, only to be proved wrong. Sometimes questions are poorly put but you sense the desperation of the asker and try - Good Samaritan - to offer something that might set them on a useful track or trigger a response from another translator. When I have done this sort of thing, I have always given a low confidence level and stated what I am doing and why I am doing it.
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Tina Vonhof (X)
Canada
Local time: 13:17
Dutch to English
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| Be careful how you interpret those numbers | Oct 2, 2003 |
First of all, some askers are not Proz members or professional translators. Should we not help them, just because they have never answered any questions?
Secondly, even for professional translators, a lot depends on the time zone you live in. For example, my language combination is Dutch-English and I live in Canada. When I get up in the morning, the day in Europe is already 8 hours old. Many of the questions have already been answered and all that is left for me to do is agree or d... See more First of all, some askers are not Proz members or professional translators. Should we not help them, just because they have never answered any questions?
Secondly, even for professional translators, a lot depends on the time zone you live in. For example, my language combination is Dutch-English and I live in Canada. When I get up in the morning, the day in Europe is already 8 hours old. Many of the questions have already been answered and all that is left for me to do is agree or disagree. So you have to be careful how you interpret those numbers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Anthony Green
Italy
Local time: 21:17
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Maybe they don't know how it all works... | Oct 3, 2003 |
Thanks for those points Tina.
Of course I agree with you that non-ProZ members should be helped asap, if only to show the benefits of being a member of the community.
Also, it occurred to me that some askers might not understand the e-mail system which asks us for our input - perhaps they think we're ProZ employees and are grossly overpaid to do just that!
But I'm talking about not wanting to be taken for a ride - surely someone who has asked 50 questions and answered no... See more Thanks for those points Tina.
Of course I agree with you that non-ProZ members should be helped asap, if only to show the benefits of being a member of the community.
Also, it occurred to me that some askers might not understand the e-mail system which asks us for our input - perhaps they think we're ProZ employees and are grossly overpaid to do just that!
But I'm talking about not wanting to be taken for a ride - surely someone who has asked 50 questions and answered none is not acting as a member of the community.
And Tina, despite your time-zone disadvantages, you have hundreds of ProZ points (a lot more than me!) so I think a translator's commitment to the community probably becomes clear over the course of time.
Anthony
Tina Vonhof wrote:
First of all, some askers are not Proz members or professional translators. Should we not help them, just because they have never answered any questions?
Secondly, even for professional translators, a lot depends on the time zone you live in. For example, my language combination is Dutch-English and I live in Canada. When I get up in the morning, the day in Europe is already 8 hours old. Many of the questions have already been answered and all that is left for me to do is agree or disagree. So you have to be careful how you interpret those numbers. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I agree with gianfranco | Oct 3, 2003 |
Gianfranco Manca wrote:
Many problems submitted as KudoZ questions demonstrate that dictionaries not always have the answer, and not always it is the best possible. In many case it's a matter of linguistic sensitivity and choice.
[Edited at 2003-10-02 14:52]
I think that the best feature of a good translator is the sensitivity or the "feeling" he/she has with words in target language. Sometimes you look up at a word in a dictionary, the answer is there, but you feel that it is not what you are looking for in the context. Then what I do is check Kudoz glossaries, on-line dictionaries, Google and finally I make a Kudoz question.
Before I got my first Kudoz points, I answered at least 10 questions for which I did not get any points, but afterwards my answers started being considered.
I think that Williamson gave up too soon.
Marianela
| | | | | Someone offered me a job because of my KudoZ profile | Oct 8, 2003 |
[quote]Anthony Green wrote:
I must be missing something. Do KudoZ points earn me anything?
I was quite amazed last month to get a completely unsolicited e-mail offering me a large and attractive job because of the kind of KudoZ questions I had answered. That paid for my Proz.com platinum status straight away, and next year's too!
Apart from that, I have to admit it's a bit of an ego-trip to find the right answer. It's a kind of exercise, even if my answer is not chosen, and I quite often note down other people's answers for a rainy day.
Poking about my dictionaries, I sometimes discover pages in them or reference books at the end of the shelf that I had forgotten!
When I started translating I spent five years working in-house with some really kind and inspiring colleagues who were always willing to help. I can never pay them back, but if I can pass on their help, so others can benefit too, then it pays off some of the debt anyway.
If KudoZ isn't fun or useful, just delete the mails, or alter your profile and drop them altogether!
But thanks to everyone who does contribute! In this job like all others, the greater the island of knowledge, the longer the shore of the unknown surrounding it.
[Edited at 2003-10-08 13:19]
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| Thanks for these words, CRAndersen | Oct 8, 2003 |
all you say is very interesting and I agree, I'll quote just what I preferred
I can never pay them back, but if I can pass on their help, so others can benefit too, then it pays off some of the debt anyway.
Nice philosophy for life.
| | | | Anthony Green
Italy
Local time: 21:17
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Paying it forward | Oct 8, 2003 |
I love the image of the shore!
I read a novel a few years ago called "Pay it forward" in which a child started out a revolution by deciding NOT to pay anyone back but only to pay forward - to do a good deed to someone ELSE as a form of thanks. In the novel it became a national phenomenon - if only it could become the rule rather than the exception. ProZ is in a way based on the same concept, which presumably accounts for its power.
CRAndersen wrote:
I can never pay them back, but if I can pass on their help, so others can benefit too, then it pays off some of the debt anyway.
But thanks to everyone who does contribute! In this job like all others, the greater the island of knowledge, the longer the shore of the unknown surrounding it.
| | | | | Yes, please bear in mind there may be various reasons for "inactivity"! | Oct 9, 2003 |
I can only echo what lisse wrote above:
"In the meanwhile things have changed, I am going to start a free-lance activity soon, so I have to started to join in again. But I am sure that the situation is the same for other people. So please bear in mind that there may be a reason why people are not so active in the KudoZ field..."
I have also been "out of community" (translation) for a while, only now started to "re-activate", and at the moment have 4 Kudoz points, which ... See more I can only echo what lisse wrote above:
"In the meanwhile things have changed, I am going to start a free-lance activity soon, so I have to started to join in again. But I am sure that the situation is the same for other people. So please bear in mind that there may be a reason why people are not so active in the KudoZ field..."
I have also been "out of community" (translation) for a while, only now started to "re-activate", and at the moment have 4 Kudoz points, which I'm very proud of, or was, before someone above quoted that as a very low figure... ▲ Collapse
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