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Is it correct and fair not to award Kudoz points?
Thread poster: cynthiatesser

cynthiatesser  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 23:39
English to Italian
+ ...
Oct 21, 2009

I happened to see more than once that, although correct answers were given by one or more members to a Kudoz question, points were not awarded by the asker. Do you think this is correct and fair?

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2009-10-21 10:23 GMT]


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Yasutomo Kanazawa  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:39
English to Japanese
+ ...
Depens on the situation. Oct 21, 2009

I think it depends on the situation. Even if the answers are correct, they may not necessarily be perfect answers for askers in certain contexts. In that case, If there are very good and convincing reasons why points have not been awarded, I believe most of the answerers would not object to askers closing questions without grading.

I've been quite active in KudoZ, but it seems to me that what makes more people upset is the abusing of changing the level (pro to non-pro), closing the question without giving any further reasons why plus no awarding of points, and abandoning the question (without closing the question and leaving it open for months or years).


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 22:39
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
appreciation is more important than points Oct 21, 2009

Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
what makes more people upset is the abusing of changing the level (pro to non-pro), closing the question without giving any further reasons why plus no awarding of points, and abandoning the question (without closing the question and leaving it open for months or years).


Personally, I feel that regrading is often necessary to avoid overloading the glossary with repeats and entries that belong in a dictionary.

Abandoning, yes, shows a lack of repect for the help given, but doesn't it get closed sooner or later, anyway?

As for closing without awarding points, I have no problem if a reason is given. What annoys me is when askers say "found the answer elsewhere" or similar - without sharing with us! Frankly, if we've given our time to help, sharing the chosen term with us is the least the asker could do!

It worries me that a substantial minority of people only answer questions to gain points - surely that's not the spirit - but it is nice to know your help is appreciated, even if it doesn't lead to a solution.


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Yasutomo Kanazawa  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:39
English to Japanese
+ ...
Not necessarily Oct 21, 2009

Sheila Wilson wrote:

Yasutomo Kanazawa wrote:
what makes more people upset is the abusing of changing the level (pro to non-pro), closing the question without giving any further reasons why plus no awarding of points, and abandoning the question (without closing the question and leaving it open for months or years).


Personally, I feel that regrading is often necessary to avoid overloading the glossary with repeats and entries that belong in a dictionary.

Abandoning, yes, shows a lack of repect for the help given, but doesn't it get closed sooner or later, anyway?

As for closing without awarding points, I have no problem if a reason is given. What annoys me is when askers say "found the answer elsewhere" or similar - without sharing with us! Frankly, if we've given our time to help, sharing the chosen term with us is the least the asker could do!

It worries me that a substantial minority of people only answer questions to gain points - surely that's not the spirit - but it is nice to know your help is appreciated, even if it doesn't lead to a solution.


Hello Sheila,

I agree with you regarding regrading, but aren't there already many similar terms entered in the glossary multiple times? I sometimes see an asker asking a translation for a certain term or phrase, and once in a while, someone comes up with the answer "See link below" http://proz.com.glossariesXXXhtml. Of course, there are askers who already have checked the glossary, and the term is there, but doesn't fit into the particular context which one is asking.

Regarding abandoning, at least in my working pair, I see a lot of abandoned questions, where an answer(s) are entered with some having an agreement of +1, but insufficient to be graded and closed automatically. I've now found one from Sept 2, 2008, with four answers submitted and one of them has a +1 agree and still open. And there are still other more. It's too bad that I cannot give you links to the questions.

Maybe you have misunderstood me concerning the last point; I'm not only after points, but also to share my knowledge or help with the asker and the answerers.


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carly  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 23:40
Italian to English
+ ...
the height of ingratitude Oct 21, 2009

If you ask for help, and at least one person provides a valid suggestion, then in my opinion it is common courtesy to grade/award points. Making a glossary entry is not compulsory.

I personally wouldn't dream of closing a question without grading unless there was absolutely no suitable answer given, and it annoys me intensely when askers close without grading without so much as a by-your-leave.



[Edited at 2009-10-21 13:30 GMT]


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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:40
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agree with Carly Oct 21, 2009

The rules state only that points are to be awarded to "the most helpful answer," so I think that "closing without grading" should be reserved for instances in which none of the responses were in the least bit helpful--a circumstance that does not often occur.

I agree that stating "answer found elsewhere" without sharing that answer is rude and unhelpful--and often is not a valid excuse for not awarding points.

However, one of the great things about the system is that it is completely voluntary. Thus, it is possible to simply choose to ignore postings from those who seem to display a pattern of either poor judgment or poor citizenship. The system even has filters that will do the "ignoring" for you.


[Edited at 2009-10-21 12:51 GMT]


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Amy Duncan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 20:40
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Closing questions Oct 21, 2009

I've had to close questions a few times, and I've always given an explanation in the Post Discussion area because there's nowhere else to do it. I've always wondered whether anyone saw what I wrote there. I never liked the idea of closing a question without an explanation.

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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 19:40
SITE STAFF
Statistics are available in each question Oct 21, 2009

Robert Forstag wrote:

However, one of the great things about the system is that it is completely voluntary. Thus, it is possible to simply choose to ignore postings from those who seem to display a pattern of either poor judgment or poor citizenship. The system even has filters that will do the "ignoring" for you.


If you pass the mouse cursor over the asker's name in a KudoZ question you will see statistics that include the amount of questions that this asker has closed without grading.




Regards,
Enrique


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Monika Elisabeth Sieger  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:40
Member (2009)
English to German
+ ...
Closed without a grading and then used my suggestion Oct 21, 2009

This happened to me quite a few times over the last few weeks and I personally think it is unfair. Especially if you then see that the asker had used your suggestion without any comment or alteration.
I am afraid this will out people off in helping others.
I have no problem at all if my suggestions are not chosen. I never have asked any question so far, but sometimes I think suggestions made should be honoured a little bit more by some of the askers. I have already created my own secret list on which I already have quite a few "ungrateful" names. I only will answer their questions if I am getting really bored, which never happens.

Although I only started answering question some months ago I am quite often astonished and really annoyed by the rude and impolite way some people act, react and write their commentaries. (They are on my list as well.....)


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Joan Berglund  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:40
French to English
I have thought about not awarding points in certain circumstances Oct 21, 2009

It sometimes happens that I post a question, and ask could the translation be "X"? A helpful colleague or even several colleagues will answer in the not-for-points reference or discussion section that they believe I am correct and it is in fact "X". Subsequently, someone else will post the same "X" as a translation in the for points section. It really bugs me to award points in this case, since they were not the first, or even the second to suggest the translation, but only the first to suggest it for points. Does this make sense? I never really know quite what to do in this circumstance, it has happened a couple times.

Edited to add PS: I wonder if people are not even aware when they post an answer that has already been suggested in the discussion section? I suppose they may think I am just being rude.

[Edited at 2009-10-21 21:07 GMT]


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ViktoriaG  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 17:40
English to French
+ ...
It would all be so simple... Oct 21, 2009

The point of KudoZ is to help a colleague. I don't know about you, but I usually don't expect anything in return. A favor is a favor. Sure, it's nice to get points and use them to our advantage. But imagine if there were no points awarded. Would we be discussing this topic? Would people be posting about attitude problems in the KudoZ section?

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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:40
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
Some askers wants to get the help but are jealous of the answerer gets for the points he gets Oct 21, 2009

That's why some of them get the needed help and run away with it by saying "answer found elsewhere".

[Edited at 2009-10-21 21:10 GMT]


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Daniel Grau  Identity Verified
Argentina
English to Spanish
@ Sheila: Questions don't get closed by themselves Oct 22, 2009

Sheila Wilson wrote:
but doesn't it get closed sooner or later, anyway?


No, it does not get closed, Sheila. I have open questions I answered that date back to March, 2005. It's hopeless, but forcing askers to behave with civility seems to be frowned on by the site's staff. The asker is King, while Traffic rules.

And user filters are no good when askers create multiple accounts (usually with empty info) and keep on asking beyond their daily limit.

Daniel

[Edited at 2009-10-22 04:58 GMT]


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cynthiatesser  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 23:40
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your answers Oct 22, 2009

Hi, here's Cynthia again, the topic poster.

I agree with most of you. I especially agree with these statements:

CARLY: I personally wouldn't dream of closing a question without grading unless there was absolutely no suitable answer given, and it annoys me intensely when askers close without grading without so much as a by-your-leave.

ROBERT: The rules state only that points are to be awarded to "the most helpful answer," so I think that "closing without grading" should be reserved for instances in which none of the responses were in the least bit helpful--a circumstance that does not often occur.
I agree that stating "answer found elsewhere" without sharing that answer is rude and unhelpful--and often is not a valid excuse for not awarding points.

SIVARA: I have already created my own secret list on which I already have quite a few "ungrateful" names.

JYUAN: Some askers wants to get the help but are jealous of the answerer gets for the points he gets
---
Personally, I wouldn't dream of closing a question without awarding and least one point to the best answer and especially without explaining why I chose a differrent solution and what that is. It is quite unlikely that answers are so bad to be all inacceptable.

I do believe that some people are jealous of other Proz members for the points they get so they award as few as they can. Also questions left open are quite annoying and rude.

Like Sivara, I've created a "black list" of bad askers so, watch out!


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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 19:40
SITE STAFF
Mechanisms to have questions closed Oct 22, 2009

Daniel Grau wrote:

Sheila Wilson wrote:
but doesn't it get closed sooner or later, anyway?


It's hopeless, but forcing askers to behave with civility seems to be frowned on by the site's staff. The asker is King, while Traffic rules.


This is simply not true. Several mechanisms are in place to have as many questions as possible closed, see here and here.

If a "help" question has received answers but not been closed within three days, email is sent to the asker reminding him or her to grade.

If the question remains open after four such reminders have been sent (over 2 weeks), an attempt is made to select the best answer automatically. An 'autograding robot' makes its selection based on the net number of peer 'agrees' received by each answer, considering those that have received at least two "net agrees" (agrees-disagrees).

If no answer has at least 2 net agrees, it remains open, but the robot will periodically attempt to close it.

In spite of all there mechanisms, some questions with valid answers remain open. To discourage this, a limit prevents users from further asking when they have at least 10 questions with valid answers that have remained open for at least a week.



And user filters are no good when askers create multiple accounts (usually with empty info) and keep on asking beyond their daily limit.


This is against the rules and there are mechanisms in place to discourage it. If you suspect that an user is engaged in this kind of behavior please submit a support request and it will be promptly investigated.

Regards,
Enrique


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