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Should the "Pro/Non-Pro" classification of KudoZ questions be eliminated?
Thread poster: Barbara Cochran, MFA
Barbara Cochran, MFA  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
Oct 27, 2009

Hello All,

In view of that fact that there are obviously at least one, and probably more individuals who abuse the "Pro/Non-Pro" classification of KudoZ questions, should this website eliminate the option together?

The reason I ask is because, in my case, and probably in others, when I enter a question, there is one individual who always rates my questions as "Non-Pro," even when it is a matter of a translation question in which she has no demonstrable credentials. I know who this person is, that is to say, her actual name. She goes by a different user name (ah, yes-apparently it isn't so easy to hide behind those, after all) on another website (I have been informed by two different people that they are the same person, without a doubt) where, when I was actively participating on the same, she openly defamed me, on multiple occasions.

Please don't plead that this is a case of free speech. My brother-in-law, who is a very experienced attorney, advises me that there is a difference between "free speech" and "defamation." The latter is illegal, especially if there is intent to interfere with one's ability to earn a living. I am a translator! No matter what she says...

So do you think the "Pro/Non-Pro" classifications should be done away with, in the best interests of everyone, including for the best interests of those who are abusing the option?



[Edited at 2009-10-27 23:41 GMT]


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 21:23
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
Not really Oct 27, 2009

No, the solution is to re-classify all questions appropriately. ProZ.com already offers the tools to do this, even for those who are not moderators, and has for some time now.

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philgoddard
United States
Member (2009)
German to English
+ ...
No, it shouldn't be eliminated Oct 27, 2009

If you have evidence that someone is abusing the system, you should report them to the staff at Proz.

I find the Pro/Non-Pro distinction a good way of sending a message to the questioner. There are many people for whom this site is a first port of call, and who use it in the same way as others use dictionaries. They don't bother doing any research themselves, but expect others to do it for them.

There are also people who are translating out of their mother tongue, have a shaky grasp of the target language, and ask very basic questions that most professional translators wouldn't need to. Again, these should be in a separate category


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Barbara Cochran, MFA  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Abuse of the Option Oct 28, 2009

You missed the point.

I stated that the abuse of the option is not appropriate.

It is a mathematical impossibility that every question I enter, and which she looks at, is "Non-Pro." As a matter of fact, they are far from it.

[Edited at 2009-10-28 00:01 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-10-28 00:54 GMT]


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 21:23
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
In that case Oct 28, 2009

You should report it to the authorities, be it moderators or ProZ.com staff.

The point is, every question can be re-classified. If this isn't happening with regard to a person's questions, then someone should take action. Why don't you? I'm telling you it's more than possible.


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Barbara Cochran, MFA  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The Instigator IS A Moderator Oct 28, 2009

I appreciate your input, Mikhail. But I believe that the insitigator is a moderator on this site, and you know what they say-"birds of a feather flock together."

That's my whole point. I am a translator, too, and have been a very busy one, for many years, which has been obvious to this individual. I can see where her bitter attitude would antagonize many, including possible clients. Maybe she resents how much I obviously work, and the great and prestigious projects I obviously land, from time to time.

Where's the solidarity (among translators)? Options like "Non-Pro" do nothing to promote good will and solidarity amongst the same, especially when it is so obviously abused.

[Edited at 2009-10-28 00:18 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-10-28 00:53 GMT]


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Maria Tsang  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:23
German to French
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every question? Oct 28, 2009


It is a mathematical impossibility that every question I enter is "Non-Pro."


Was the problem already fixed? I don't see every question marked non-pro when I look at your kudoz questions linked in your profile.


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Barbara Cochran, MFA  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
She Doesn't Show Up On My SP>ENG Questions, But... Oct 28, 2009

But, then again, why does she show up on my IT>ENG pages, a pair in which she has no demonstrable credentials, and vote the question to be classified "Non Pro?" How in the hell would she know?!!

Now, as far as I'm concerned, that is a blatant abuse of the system.

Quite obvious to me what's going on with her, when I consider her behavior towards me on that other website I mentioned.





[Edited at 2009-10-28 01:10 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-10-28 01:18 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-10-28 02:27 GMT]


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 21:23
Member (2005)
English to Russian
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femme Oct 28, 2009

I sympathize with you. However, moderators have recently been stripped of most of their powers, so don't you think 'the instigator' is an 'untouchable.' Make sure your cause is right, investigate this issue and have ProZ.com staff look into it.

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Barbara Cochran, MFA  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:23
Spanish to English
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TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Mikhail Oct 28, 2009

Thanks for your supportive comments, Mikhail. Unfortunately, since I do not have a paid membership (because I don't need one on this site), I feel one of my my issues was disregarded by the staff. That one time I did raise an issue with the staff, it ended up being disregarded, because the other person in question did have a paid membership. The staff never denied that that was indeed the reason for the disregard. That incident, in and of itself, is another reason I'll never become a paid member.

[Edited at 2009-10-28 01:15 GMT]


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NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 13:23
Member (2002)
French to English
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MODERATOR
Not sure of your point, actually Oct 28, 2009

femme wrote:
I appreciate your input, Mikhail. But I believe that the insitigator is a moderator on this site, and you know what they say-"birds of a feather flock together."

That's my whole point. I am a translator, too, and have been a very busy one, for many years, which has been obvious to this individual. I can see where her bitter attitude would antagonize many, including possible clients. Maybe she resents how much I obviously work, and the great and prestigious projects I obviously land, from time to time.

Where's the solidarity (among translators)? Options like "Non-Pro" do nothing to promote good will and solidarity amongst the same, especially when it is so obviously abused.

[Edited at 2009-10-28 00:18 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-10-28 00:53 GMT]


Why post this here rather than submit a Support Ticket? What is there to be accomplished by a forum thread on a moderator`s jealousy and moderator collusion in this jealousy?


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Barbara Cochran, MFA  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Want Opinions From Other Users On this Issue, Nancy Oct 28, 2009

That's why I introduced it as a forum topic.

Again, I want to know if others want the "Pro/No-Pro" option to stay or go, and their reasons for their point of view.

I'm entitled to give my reasons, if I so choose.

Please refer to the title of my topic.

[Edited at 2009-10-28 01:41 GMT]


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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:23
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Agree with Phil, Mikhail, and Nancy Oct 28, 2009

As Phil and Mikhail point out, erasing the distinction would make a mockery of the system (i.e., there really ought to be a distinction between terms that can be found with a modicum of effort in an online or paper dictionary and those requiring a skill level beyond that of a first-year student). And as Mikhail and Nancy point out, rather than calling for a sweeping change of the system because of your unfortunate experience, you ought to have addressed this through the proper channels. If the abuser has acted as pervasively and egregiously as you claim, you ought to be able to easily make your case to Henry, Patrick, or someone else in the proz.com hierarchy. It would seem that the system could be easily modified to prevent the individual in question from making modifications within the language pair in question (or to be stripped of their moderator's status altogether).

Your point does highlight a weakness of the Kudoz system: namely, that those with "editing" privileges are able to apply said privileges to pairs of which they have little or no knowledge. Most individuals police themselves. According to your allegations, this individual does not.

[Edited at 2009-10-28 02:13 GMT]


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Barbara Cochran, MFA  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:23
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks For Your Comments, Robert Oct 28, 2009

I can see you also agree with me re: unqualified classification assessments.

However, I do have every right to ask others' opinions through this forum.

I cannot do that through a support ticket.



[Edited at 2009-10-28 02:25 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-10-28 02:25 GMT]


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Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 19:23
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
Which powers, Mikhail?? Oct 28, 2009

Hello Mikhail,


...However, moderators have recently been stripped of most of their powers, so don't you think 'the instigator' is an 'untouchable.'


As one of the old moderators - I have served the site and its visitors, users and members for n*i*n*e years, resigned early in March, I find that your comment is pretty unfair, as it suggests that old moderators lacked integrity and fair play (as well as they used to abuse their "label") and that site staff supported moderators at all times.

As to the "powers", perhaps you could tell me which powers we had, as I haven't been bright enough to be aware of any. On the contrary, we had to be moderated at all times, even when attacked personally for having tried to apply site rules. I spare you a detailed description of the accusations, personal attacks, threats (to ruin my professional image) and aggressions I have been targeted while in service. Fortunately, there have been a few, who don't share your personal perception and appreciated our efforts.

This said, I believe the distinction between pro/non-pro should be kept for various reasons: the site is open to anyone, professional and not, some colleagues prefer not to answer easy questions etc.

If there is an abuse, or if any KudoZer believes there is one, a support ticket is called for and the fastest way to have the matter settled.

Giuliana

[Edited at 2009-10-28 03:04 GMT]


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