Good tidings for GBK
Thread poster: juvera
juvera  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:17
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Dec 5, 2009

(Please, don't say: Not again!)

“This is a new program, so the volume of terms is still relatively small but expected to grow significantly.”

It started just over a year ago, and it will reach 300 questions per language pair in a few months time. Cause for celebration.

The number of thematic fields is about 170. That would mean 1.76 questions per field.
Although when you check, you may find up to 20 in a field, because the same questions turn up in a number of related fields. Conversely, some fields have none.

“Consider participating in the GBK program to show and share your expertise.”

If you specialise in anthropology, genealogy, surveying and some other subjects, you had no chance to contribute so far, to the Great Book of Klues, you could not even approve, disapprove or make comments.

But don't despair, because:

KudoZ rule 3.3 (multiple answers) does NOT apply to GBK questions, therefore when you are able to answer at last, you can indulge yourself. You are allowed to post as many answers as you wish. Giving multiple answers would highlight your expertise and certainty in providing the correct answer.

And of course, a lot of the questions open up the possibility to a great variety of answers. To show you an example: ecotone in English would be ecoton, ecotono, ekoton, écotone, Ekotón, ecótonó, ökoton, ecotoni, etc., depending on which language you choose, of course.

I hope these little known facts revived your enthusiasm towards this great venture.


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xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 16:17
Spanish to English
+ ...
Errr... ? Dec 5, 2009

juvera wrote:
Giving multiple answers would highlight your expertise and certainty in providing the correct answer.


I fail to see how my giving multiple answers to any given question can do anything other than reflect my uncertainty and, indeed, an absolute lack of expertise in the subject of the question!

While I'm moaning, may I hijack this thread - without going completely off-topic - by mentioning that the most unsatisfactory definitions I have seen in the GBK system, at least in my languages and specialities, are those provided in the source language (English) to 'seed' the glossary.

MediaMatrix


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juvera  Identity Verified
Local time: 19:17
English to Hungarian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Precisely Dec 5, 2009

mediamatrix wrote:
juvera wrote:
Giving multiple answers would highlight your expertise and certainty in providing the correct answer.

I fail to see how my giving multiple answers to any given question can do anything other than reflect my uncertainty and, indeed, an absolute lack of expertise in the subject of the question!

While I'm moaning, may I hijack this thread - without going completely off-topic - by mentioning that the most unsatisfactory definitions I have seen in the GBK system, at least in my languages and specialities, are those provided in the source language (English) to 'seed' the glossary.
MediaMatrix


Knowing that multiple answers are frowned upon in KudoZ, where the chances of having equally good multiple answers are a distinct possibility, learning about the lack of restriction when answering GBK questions surprised me and I would have thought its implications - as you spelt it out - are fairly obvious.

That's why expertise and certainty are in italics.

And I am not going to argue about you hijacking the thread either.


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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 16:17
SITE STAFF
KudoZ rule 3.3 (multiple answers) does NOT apply to GBK questions Dec 6, 2009

From the FAQs

    2.10 - Can I provide more than one answer as different options when answering a GBK question?

    Answerers in GBK can provide more than one answer to the same term, as this is the proper way to offer synonyms. In this case the example sentence(s) should include the term offered in each answer.


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Andrea Re  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:17
English to Italian
+ ...
What is it for? Dec 9, 2009

Can someone explain to me what this glossary is for? I mean, the questions I see asked are all very easy indeed and even if one didn't know the answer straight away, one simple search on the internet would solve the problem. In addition, they seem to be picked from very different subjects. I am really confused...
Who chooses the questions and why? I mean, if you are going to do it, might as well ask something a bit more worthwhile...

Andrea


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:17
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
So, synonyms will be included in the GBK glossary? Dec 9, 2009

Enrique wrote:

From the FAQs

    2.10 - Can I provide more than one answer as different options when answering a GBK question?

    Answerers in GBK can provide more than one answer to the same term, as this is the proper way to offer synonyms. In this case the example sentence(s) should include the term offered in each answer.


Enrique, could you remind me how the "best" answers are selected in the GBK system if synonyms should be provided as separate answers?
Is there a recent change where in case of synonyms, multiple answers may be selected and all would make it into the GBK glossary?

Standard paper dictionaries do contain synonyms, with their definitions, etc., and that is useful, is this what this is about?

Katalin

[Edited at 2009-12-09 15:41 GMT]


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Enrique Cavalitto
Local time: 16:17
SITE STAFF
Offering alternative translations Dec 24, 2009

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Enrique wrote:

From the FAQs

    2.10 - Can I provide more than one answer as different options when answering a GBK question?

    Answerers in GBK can provide more than one answer to the same term, as this is the proper way to offer synonyms. In this case the example sentence(s) should include the term offered in each answer.


Enrique, could you remind me how the "best" answers are selected in the GBK system if synonyms should be provided as separate answers?
Is there a recent change where in case of synonyms, multiple answers may be selected and all would make it into the GBK glossary?

Standard paper dictionaries do contain synonyms, with their definitions, etc., and that is useful, is this what this is about?

Katalin


GBK answerers can provide (in different answers) what they consider alternative translations of the offered term, including in each case example sentences containing that term.

The community members enabled to do so can vote to select what they consider to be the best alternative, and only one will be eventually selected.

There are plans to incorporate further refinements in the GBK system. A handling of synonyms could be added, probably on the glossary entry (post-grading).

Regards,
Enrique


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xxxmediamatrix
Local time: 16:17
Spanish to English
+ ...
Synonyms Dec 24, 2009

Enrique wrote:
GBK answerers can provide (in different answers) what they consider alternative translations of the offered term, including in each case example sentences containing that term.


Surely the whole point of synonyms is that they all correspond to the same concept, in the same context and, by definition, to the same definition.

I can see no logic in the current arrangement whereby synonyms have to be offered as separate answers, in the knowledge that only one of them can end up being selected.

It would be better, I suggest, if contributors could provide a single answer which contains one definition, one or more terms/synonyms, and at least one example sentence using each of the suggested synonyms.

Not only would the end result be more meaningful - it would also be a much lesser burden on contributors than going through the whole multi-step answer process once for each synonym.

I suggest also that doing it this way contributors would be made more conscious of slight differences in meaning between their apparent synonyms (hence to their real status as 'synonyms'), and of the need to provide a single definition that adequately corresponds to the term(s).

That said, I still think the primary failing of the GBK system is the absence of a mechanism whereby the source terms/definitions can be vetted by specialists in the subject-matter before they are offered for translation. In too many cases the answers in French and Spanish, for example, are far better than the English questions.

Season's Greetings,
MediaMatrix


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:17
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Synonyms - posting them separately makes no sense Dec 30, 2009

Mediamatrix explained the basic idea of synonyms very well and pointed out why the current system in GBK (synonyms can only be posted as separate answers but only one of them gets into the Glossary) is not logical - I fully agree.

Katalin


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:17
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
GBK glossaries not accessible from the new menus? Dec 30, 2009

Why is it that the new site menus (the new tabs) don't contain a link to the GBK glossaries?
This is what is available under the Terminology tab:
KudoZ™
Answer questions Term search
Ask question Leaders
KudoZ glossaries
My KudoZ - My settings

Other terminology resources
Glosspost Dictionaries & references
Web term search Personal glossaries


There was one on the old menu (GBK glossaries), but it seems to have disappeared from the new ones.
Not that I miss it terribly, but I was wondering whether it is intentional or just an oversight?

Katalin


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 14:17
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
GBK glossary link is added to the menu Feb 17, 2010

See Colin's posting here:

http://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom:_translator_coop/154841-updated_site_navigation_menu_will_soon_be_the_standard.html#1327748


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 20:17
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Any chance of English natives being allowed to participate? Feb 17, 2010

Major English-based professional associations like the ATA, ITI and CIoL disapprove of translating into acquired languages, and members are only supposed to translate into their native language.

Since many native speakers of English are members of these associations and observe the rule, that means they are not allowed to participate in GBK, because all the questions are posted with English as the source language, and they ´do not work in that pair´.

The glossary is searchable in both directions, and maybe it is time to move on from the beta stage.

Lots of useful answers are given in Help-KudoZ by native speakers of the source language. If you don´t fully understand the source terminology, how are you supposed to translate it? Terminology is not the same as translation, and understanding the source is half of translation after all. Many of the GBK terms could be explained by anyone who has seriously studied both languages in a pair, but many English natives who follow the professional rules are barred. Full stop.

I think it would be good tidings for GBK if English natives with the appropriate expertise were allowed to participate.



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