Proper placement of a KudoZ question
Thread poster: Lota

Lota
United States
Local time: 07:59
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
Dec 7, 2009

And so I have a question concerning the Polish words strona and stronica. Specifically, I would like to know how to render the difference in English. So I place my question in the Polish-English section. The reason? My source words are in Polish and I would like to learn their English equivalents. The moderator moves my question to English-English. It defeats the purpose. Who in the English-English section will know the meaning of "strona" and "stronica" and the difference between them (I do not know it myself). So I need someone who speaks Polish AND English well enough to know the difference in Polish AND is able to render it in English.

Do you agree with my disagreement with the changed location of my question?

Thank you.


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IwonaASzymaniak  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:59
English to Polish
+ ...
Mistake Dec 7, 2009

I think it was a mistake, and the mod only wanted to change it to Polish-Polish.

BTW, apart from the fact that strona has several other meanings I can see no difference between the two as they refer to "każda z dwu powierzchni karty papieru" (or, either of the surfaces of a sheet of paper"; as a matter of fact, the definition of stronica in the Polish online dictionary sends you to one of the nine meanings of strona, and my printed dictionary by Doroszewski gives the same definition of both in this meaning, adding strona for more explanation.

Now the ball is on your side of the court, and it is up to you to choose an adequate synonym, if any.

I feel that stronica is sort of old-fashioned or perhaps more sublime in style. But it is a gut feeling not supported by dictionaries.

Stronica is also used metaphorically while strona rather not.

We would say: "zapisał się na stronicach (or na kartach) historii" but not "na stronach historii".

Best,

Iwona

[Zmieniono 2009-12-07 22:15 GMT]


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Natalie  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 16:59
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...

MODERATOR
Hi Lota Dec 7, 2009

Here is how I see it. The question line says: "strona vs. stronica" - and this sounds exactly as a PL monolingual question. I have an impression that your question was not clear enough (the more so that no context was available). It looks like fellow moderator has been mislead by this.

The pair has been changed back to PL>EN, hope this helps.

Best,
Natalia


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xxxOTMed
Poland
Local time: 16:59
English to Polish
+ ...
"X vs. Y" questions explained Dec 8, 2009

Dear Lota and all,

I will reply to your question using my previous message you should have received from me. Hope you don't mind me pasting a slightly redacted version:

1. The 'X vs. Y' questions are fairly common, and ProZ.com has a policy to handle them. Moderators have been tasked to implement this policy.

2. KudoZ rule 2.3 says "One term is allowed per question. Including multiple terms for translation in a single KudoZ posting interferes with the process of generating glossary entries".

3. Please refer to Kudoz FAQ http://www.proz.com/faq/4339#4339

4. You may also refer to this thread
http://slk.proz.com/forum/kudoz/141854-use_of_a_single_question_to_clarify_distinctions_between_similar_terms_apparent_rule_conflict.html

I quote (and second) Jared's suggestions of handling such questions:
a. Post "strona" in PL-EN Kudoz + provide additional information on distinguishing between strona/stronica in the description field
and/or
b. Post "stronica" in PL-EN Kudoz + provide the above info.

This will prevent us from ending up with glossary-unfriendly “X vs. Y” questions.

Of note, what may add to the confusion is that "X vs. Y" questions could have been previously un- or undermoderated in the PLEN pair, but I think site-wide guidelines should be followed.

I am changing this question to PL-PL

P.S. Thank you Natalie for your input.


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:59
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
I beg to differ Dec 8, 2009

Dr G. Palka wrote:

This will prevent us from ending up with glossary-unfriendly “X vs. Y” questions.


Why on earth are they glossary-unfriendly?
If someone searches for X, the question will come up.
If someone searches for Y, the question will come up.
In fact, having the X vs. Y in the glossary can be very helpful.

The thread you have pointed to is not complete. There is still at least one question hanging there. By the way, Jared also said in one of his postings that he really doesn't care how such questions are asked, so the picture is far from being black and white.

I am not saying that X vs. Y questions are always legitimate as "one" question from A language to B language, but in some cases they are. Asking for help with such problems in one question may be the simplest and most straightforward way both for the askers and answerers, and for future searchers as well. I am not going to elaborate on this further, as the referenced thread has plenty of arguments about it.

Case by case handling would be the most appropriate, which is exactly what Natalie, as a very experienced Moderator was trying to do.

Katalin

[Edited at 2009-12-08 18:22 GMT]


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Lota
United States
Local time: 07:59
Member (2007)
English to Polish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
back to my question Dec 8, 2009

I want to make it simple. From reading my post, it should be clear that I wanted to find out the difference between "strona" and "stronica" (Polish) in order to capture it in English. Perhaps my title was not clear. I can see that.
But instead of pointing this fact out to me, the question got shifted into the Polish-Polish sector. How will anyone in that sector help me sort out what "stronica" is in English, as opposed to "strona"?

I like this cooperation very much but there is no need to become unhelpful, at any stage of the process.
I hope you all agree with me.

Thanks.
Lota




Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

Dr G. Palka wrote:

This will prevent us from ending up with glossary-unfriendly “X vs. Y” questions.


Why on earth are they glossary-unfriendly?
If someone searches for X, the question will come up.
If someone searches for Y, the question will come up.
In fact, having the X vs. Y in the glossary can be very helpful.

The thread you have pointed to is not complete. There is still at least one question hanging there. By the way, Jared also said in one of his postings that he really doesn't care how such questions are asked, so the picture is far from being black and white.

I am not saying that X vs. Y questions are always legitimate as "one" question from A language to B language, but in some cases they are. Asking for help with such problems in one question may be the simplest and most straightforward way both for the askers and answerers, and for future searchers as well. I am not going to elaborate on this further, as the referenced thread has plenty of arguments about it.

Case by case handling would be the most appropriate, which is exactly what Natalie, as a very experienced Moderator was trying to do.

Katalin

[Edited at 2009-12-08 18:22 GMT]


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liviu roth
United States
Local time: 10:59
Romanian to English
+ ...
my opinion Dec 8, 2009

Lota,

in order to achieve your goal sometimes you need to circumvent cumbersome rules, so
post a question PL>EN for "strona" and the next question for "stronica" and you might get an interesting debate.

my 2 cents,
lee


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