Logic behind kudoz-points
Thread poster: Helena Diaz del Real

Helena Diaz del Real  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:13
German to Spanish
+ ...
Dec 26, 2009

Hello colleagues,

It's already long ago when I started wondering about the logic behind kudoz-points and I honestly can only say I can't find much of it. Let me explain: (Both cases are fictious)

Case A:
Sometimes there is an expression I know exactly what it means. I have absolutely no doubts what the original writer of the text meant. And my only problem, as a translator is, that at this moment, due to stress or whatsoever, I am not able to put it in words in my own language, and at the same level. With level I mean I don't use the same words if I talk as a lawyer to a judge in a court, as if I am talking to motorbikers on a hardcore meeting with snow and very cold weather, living in tents in a wood, drinking beer, beer and nothing but beer during a weekend in the coldest, deepest winter.

Case B:
I am translating a very complicated text on chemistry. There is a word, with 0 results in google and I have no idea what this could mean. All the text seems to hang on this word but I never heard of it before. If i try to figure it out, I get no result.

In both cases I ask in Kudoz.
Let's say I get 4 answers for case A (Answer 1, answer 2, answer 3 and answer 4) and 3 for case 2 (answer 5, answer 6 and answer 7).

For the first four answers I can easily choose an apropiate answer and I can award it with 4 points. But for the last three answers: How could I ever be able to choose 1 answer as the most helpfull? In which court in this world is the victim the person who pronounces a judgement?

I am sure it has already happened to all of you who use to help out in kudoz: You are absolutely positive to have given THE needed answer in both matters: The level and the meaning. And now the choosen answer is one you POSITIVE know it is wrong.

At this case, if you try to say why you know it is wrong, you will definetely find an "discussion entry" saying something like: "You only want to chase kudoz-points", "you do not accept not to get points", etc...

Well I think you now know what I mean. Do you really think this is the right way? Do you think this is fair? Please do not forget, that most probably, this wrong answer will go right away to the glossary and you DEFINETELY KNOW it is WRONG!!!

What do you think?

Thank you very much for your answers!

Have a nice Christmas holidays and a gorgeous 2010!

Helena


 

Sandra& Kenneth  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 22:13
Member (2009)
French to English
+ ...
You have a very complicated point award system Dec 26, 2009

Here is a simpler one:
- Give 4 points to every answer that is well-researched and referenced even if you are not absolutely sure it's correct. Do your own research to verify this (this you should do in any case).
- If there are several identical answers, reward the most substantiated or the one with the better explanation.
- If all the answers are clearly wrong, don't reward them with points. Indicate your own correct answer for future reference.

It's not that complicated. I wouldn't bother with a complicated grading system, even if the answer is imperfect. Somebody took the time and trouble to answer you and to research your question. The least you can do is award 4 points.
If a chosen answer is wrong, post a discussion entry.
HTH


 

Helena Diaz del Real  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:13
German to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
You've got me wrong Dec 26, 2009

Hello Sangro,

first of all, thank you for your answer! I think, however, you've got me wrong!

I do not ask about how or when to give points to an answer, but how fair a system can be that awards with points an answer that is definetely wrong. And not only this, but also keeps them in glosaries, that are ment to be consulted for future translations and translators.

My question was more a "philosophical" one, not at all a matter of how to handle with a question I put. In fact I agree with you that the system is not complicated at all. But what about fair?

And then, let's imagine I get four reasonable answers, all vey well researched and really willing to help me: How can I decide what's the right one, if I had never heard the word/expression before???

I hope it is now clear!

My best wishes for you! Shalom!
Helena


 

David Russi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:13
English to Spanish
+ ...
Close without grading Dec 26, 2009

This is an option, though it is good to explain WHY you chose it, otherwise people who answered will not know or understand whay you did so.

 

airmailrpl  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 17:13
Member (2005)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
an option Dec 27, 2009

>How can I decide what's the right one, if I had never heard the word/expression before???

Apparently you have the option of letting the community decide the correct word/expression by giving up your right to grade the suggestion. Though sometimes choosing this option can have contrary consequences.

In a recent Kudoz query, in my language pairs, the suggestion with the most agrees was patently Wrong for that context - though would have been correct in a different context.

The asker opted to let the community decide - but indicated that the asker thought that a different suggestion was the correct option (and it was for that context).

Of course, the suggestion with the most agrees - though incorrect for that context - is now in the glossary.


 

Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 12:13
English to German
+ ...
Uhm. Dec 27, 2009

Helena Diaz del Real wrote:
How can I decide what's the right one, if I had never heard the word/expression before???


- Because you asked your client for clarification/verification?
- Because you double-checked the suggested term in specific context from reliable sources on the internet?

Just wondering.

icon_smile.gif


 

Sandra& Kenneth  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 22:13
Member (2009)
French to English
+ ...
Grade the answer you are likely to use... Dec 28, 2009

Hi Helena,
I would check all the answers and match each answer with the relevant context. I would also check the number of agrees over a certain period of time and who the agreers were. During that period, your own searches should give you an indication of the most likely correct answer.
I would not leave an answer to the community to decide. It's like leaving the term you posted to its own uncertain fate. Someone could easily enter a wrong term in the glossary. I would award full points, even for a totally wild guess if it was helpful in getting an insight into the meaning of the term or if it included references leading to an insight, or if it was plausible. I would not award any points for answers that I feel were off the mark, even if posted with maximum confidence.
Best idea I can think of: wait for several days for peer responses and for your own reflections and research to "mature". The decision will make itself.
HTH,
Sandra


 

Helena Diaz del Real  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:13
German to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you very much to all of you for your given answers! Jan 5, 2010

...and right after this, I hope you have a great 2010 with lots of luck, joy, success and specially, health! (Somebody said once to me, you do not really appreciate how valuable is health until you don't have it...)

I definetely see I expressed myself wrong and ask for your apologies.
I was NOT talking about me. My concern was about the issue of giving points or being given some. So I try it once more, just to get it clearer (not to get more answers):

With kudoz-points you get on a list. The more kudoz-points you've got, the higher are you placed on it. And it's ment to be, that some outsourcers check this list in order to give assigments.

What I think it is not very logic is that the person who in some cases has no idea what a word means, is the one who awards you with points. If a person has no idea about the meaning of a word or a sentence, how can he/she be able to decide what?s right and what?s wrong? That a maschine gives the points according to "agrees" it's for me not logical either. Sometimes I agree with a given answer, but I make no comment about it, not even "agree".

My question was NOT about how to award points, nor what should I do to recognize the best answer. It was about the logic behid the system.

So, once more, thank you very much for your comments and your thoughts. I hope now it is clear what I meant! icon_eek.gif)))

Once more, I wish you a lot of health, joy and success,
Helena


 

Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 16:13
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
Askers select the most helpful answers Jan 5, 2010

Helena Diaz del Real wrote:

What I think it is not very logic is that the person who in some cases has no idea what a word means, is the one who awards you with points. If a person has no idea about the meaning of a word or a sentence, how can he/she be able to decide what?s right and what?s wrong? That a maschine gives the points according to "agrees" it's for me not logical either. Sometimes I agree with a given answer, but I make no comment about it, not even "agree".

My question was NOT about how to award points, nor what should I do to recognize the best answer. It was about the logic behid the system.


Hi Helena,

Please note that askers are not requested to select the best answer but the one they found most helpful.

In some cases the points are assigned by a program, but it is done based on the peer comments given to the different answers by members of the community, so it is a human-based decision after all.

Regards,
Enrique


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:13
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
We have all been there before Jan 5, 2010

Helena Diaz del Real wrote:
What I think it is not very logic is that the person who in some cases has no idea what a word means, is the one who awards you with points. If a person has no idea about the meaning of a word or a sentence, how can he/she be able to decide what?s right and what?s wrong?

Well, I reckon we have to live with this. Many askers are so ignorant about the matter at hand that they don't even have the criteria needed to decide which answer is the best one or even the most useful one.

Kudoz however serves its main purpose: generate traffic and generate terms, no matter whether a big share of the terms in the Kudoz glossary are plain wrong. This is a glossary we can use as a starting point when researching something, so it serves us too up to a certain extent.

To let the asker decide the correct reply is very wrong if you think of this in terms of the right or wrong terminology, but it is fair enough in a majority of cases if the decision is based on usefulness. It is very discouraging though when you see a plain wrong answer go to the glossaries. We all have been in the stage in which you are now and later found that we should not be too concerned about it, as good professionals will always use the Kudoz glossary with care.


 


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