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Kudoz and ethics
Thread poster: Vanda Nissen

Vanda Nissen  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 16:17
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
Jan 22, 2010

Dear colleagues!
I would like discuss ethical side of Kudoz.
Earlier this I looked at one of the questions I have answered (it is still open), and saw another answer which, I think, was not correct (as a matter of fact, it was nearly a copy of my answer, just one word changed, and I thought that this particular word was mistranslated - we are talking about poetry here, and it is always difficult). I did not agree with this answer, put disagree. The person, who has answered this question, left a comment where explained his (her) choice. So far, so good. But then this person said that I was wrong because he (she) found this answer on another (professional) forum. Out of curiosity I found the discussion and found out that the person came to the forum, asked for the meaning of the phrase and its translation! 7-8 people have answered it and then he(she) posted this joint effort response on Proz.com as his (her) own answer. Is it absoultely normal? Moderator says that I am not right, this person writes that it is the same as using dictionaries or other web-resources. If I am the only one who considers unethical to go to another forum, ask for translation and later on post it as your own answer on Proz.com?


 

Heinrich Pesch  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 09:17
Member (2003)
Finnish to German
+ ...
Forget about it Jan 22, 2010

This matter is just too silly. Some would do anything for the sake of a few lousy points. Let the children play!
Regards
Heinrich


 

Marina Menendez  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 03:17
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
There is always an option: filtering Jan 22, 2010

I don't think it is silly.
It may be irrelevant for some people who don't take the time to help other translators. It's not about points, it's fair play. I used to actively participate in kudoz and learnt a lot... about people. Just "filter" them.

; )

[Edited at 2010-01-22 20:35 GMT]


 

Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:17
Italian to English
Not unethical Jan 22, 2010

All correct answers are learnt somewhere!
It doesn't matter whether it's on your mother's knee, in your professional education or yesterday on another site.
And can the Asker always tell the difference? You have to take the rough with the smooth on KudoZ.


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:17
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
Not unethical Jan 22, 2010

We have to find our answers somewhere - some simply come from our memories but others come from research. KudoZ encourages us to share our references, but we don't have to.

I think you make several points that have to be looked at separately:
1) posting wrong answers that are accepted
2) stealing another poster's answer
3) posting an answer without quoting the source

The first is the asker's prerogative, frustrating though it is. You can always add a post-grading comment. If the second seems very frequent, perhaps the moderators would deal with it. The third, as far as I know, is perfectly acceptable, although less than 100% helpful.


 

Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 09:17
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
Not unethical, but requires closer investigation of the provided reference Jan 22, 2010

I don't think it's necessarily unethical of this person. However, I would definitely like a closer look at the parallel discussion on the other forum. Your opponent should provide a link to it.

 

xxxLionel_M
Local time: 08:17
English to French
+ ...
! Jan 23, 2010

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

This matter is just too silly. Some would do anything for the sake of a few lousy points. Let the children play!
Regards
Heinrich


Wonderful words !
Take into consideration experience Vanda !
Thanks Heinrich !!!


 

Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:17
German to Serbian
+ ...
Precisely, Heinrich Jan 23, 2010

Heinrich Pesch wrote:

This matter is just too silly. Some would do anything for the sake of a few lousy points. Let the children play!
Regards
Heinrich


Touché.


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:17
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Not unethical, but silly Jan 23, 2010

Heinrich Pesch wrote:
This matter is just too silly. Some would do anything for the sake of a few lousy points. Let the children play!

I entirely agree.


 

Vanda Nissen  Identity Verified
Australia
Local time: 16:17
Member (2008)
English to Russian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
he-he Jan 23, 2010


1) posting wrong answers that are accepted
2) stealing another poster's answer
3) posting an answer without quoting the source

The first is the asker's prerogative, frustrating though it is. You can always add a post-grading comment. If the second seems very frequent, perhaps the moderators would deal with it. The third, as far as I know, is perfectly acceptable, although less than 100% helpful.

Thank you, Sheila but I am not interested in points, especially, in this pair because it is not my working pair:), and I agree that this is the asker's prerogative. First of all, the question is not closed, so it is definitely not about points. Secondly, I did not say that another person was stealing my answer. Finally, what I was trying to say that smb asked another professional community to help him/her, got an answer from this community and then posted it. The problem is that members of another community found references, pictures etc which this person has posted as a result of his/ her own research. There was not like this person found the whole discussion which had taken place some time agoe but he/she specifically came to this forum with the only purpose - to ask this question. And I would like to stress one more time: he/ she posted references, pictures but did not post the link to the discussion which starts with the words: Hello everybody! Could you please explaining me the meaning of the phrase (in question) and translate it.

Anyway, thank you, everybody, I think Marina's advice suits me well: filtering is the best option!


 

writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Kudoz and ethics? Jan 23, 2010

Sheila Wilson wrote:

1) posting wrong answers that are accepted
2) stealing another poster's answer
3) posting an answer without quoting the source

The first is the asker's prerogative, frustrating though it is. You can always add a post-grading comment. If the second seems very frequent, perhaps the moderators would deal with it,The third, as far as I know, is perfectly acceptable, although less than 100% helpful.


Afaik. the moderators only deal with 'stealing another poster's answer' if someone points out the stealing. They then remove any such comment(s). It comes under the "not a linguistic comment" rule. Moderators don't deal with stealing. There is no "rule" against.

Agree with others. Just a silly matter. Nothing to do about it in any case.


 

Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:17
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
You only know this happened because the person concerned told you Jan 23, 2010

...so was honest to that extent at least. I wonder how often this happens without anyone except the person doing it knowing about it.

 

geopiet  Identity Verified
Polish to English
+ ...
is this ethical? Feb 6, 2017

I found the answer to the certain question, however there was only one, single mention of this term in the target language, that I was able to find.

Having such a slim proof, I posted this in the "discussion" section. Six hours later there was an answer posted, showing exactly the same term.

Is something like this ok?

To be completely clear, it was not mine "area of expertise", but it was in the other person's field ...


 

Lianne van de Ven  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 02:17
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Yes, this is ethical (enough) Feb 6, 2017

Vanda Nissen wrote:
Out of curiosity I found the discussion and found out that the person came to the forum, asked for the meaning of the phrase and its translation! 7-8 people have answered it and then he(she) posted this joint effort response on Proz.com as his (her) own answer.


Imho, the person applied due diligence in researching the phrase (get peer opinions), hopefully was genuinely interested in understanding the meaning of the word (and did not go through all this hassle to get a few points or to be obnoxious), and posted an answer. It might be a little annoying that no further reference was made, but I think that's it. Sometimes things rub us (very much) the wrong way, which I completely understand, but I agree with Marina above that I have learned at least as much about people as about language on these forums.


 

neilmac  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 08:17
Spanish to English
+ ...
The end justifies the means Feb 7, 2017

I think that in most cases, the end (finding the best translation or rendering of a word or phrase) justifies the means.
OK, so if you answer a load of kudoz queries and get points ¡n that area, you apparently rise up the rankings until achieving quasi-godlike status among your fellow translators, but you mustn't let that go to your head or blinker your vision of what it's all about.
Posting solutions found by brainstorming other collegues, be it on similar "professional" (arf, arf) sites or by importuning them in the public highway, is fair game in my opinion. The important thing is to get it right, not the glory.


 
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