If offense was taken - my apology
Thread poster: Mats Wiman

Mats Wiman  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:32
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...

MODERATOR
Jan 29, 2004

In the heated Dec 22 discussion I wrote:
Ailish's admonition approaches 'incitement to 'racial' hatred' .....
The use of the 'incitement to 'racial' hatred' was wrong and if someone was offended I sincerely apologize for causing the offence..

1. It has and had nothing to do with race.
2. Hatred was far too strong a word.
3. It was interpreted by some as me saying someone is a racist.

After reactions I used 'group hatred' where 'hatred' is still far too strong a word.

Background:
Sweden has in its constitution paragraphs making it a criminal offence to agitate against someone on the basis of him/her belonging to a certain group In Swedish: "Hets mot folkgrupp" which is given as 'incitement to 'racial' hatred' in the normally excellent Norstedts dictionary. In my hurry I used this translation (which I as professional translator (? ) should have rejected). I therefore put quotation marks around it.
The law talks of ethnic groups, color of skin, religion, sex and recently sexual disposition:
"....is to intentionally in a statement or other message, eg. a picture, spread threats against or express contempt for a group.....". The word 'spread' also includes mentioning it in public, at the workplace or at an association meeting."
The "......" is intentional on my part because in general use, the word 'group' has come to include many more groups than mentioned in the law, e.g. industry captains, politicians, journalists etc.
We have therefore become very sensitive of any sign of comtempt towards a group of any kind.

This Swedish view combined with my four years of vivid participation in the KudoZ arena was why I reacted so strongly against the admontion:
"Please don't assist "translators" who clearly haven't a clue"

One should IMHO be very careful to categorise people as not having a clue or to condemn them because they are not professionals.

In tradition with ProZ glorious history, the admonition should IMNSHO read:

"Please assist everybody in need of help - IF circumstances and your preferences allow you to"

which I would like to see on every page of ProZ.com and thus become the credo of us all.

Hoping to have set emotions at rest and to have made my "surprising" comments more understandable.

I am

Yours

Mats

[Edited at 2004-01-31 07:14]


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lien
Netherlands
Local time: 06:32
English to French
+ ...
<B> PLEASE ASSIST ANYBODY IN NEED OF HELP</B> Jan 29, 2004

Thank you Mats. Indeed this should be the motto of Proz instead of bickering on the length of the phrase or the number of words.

And IF YOU CANNOT, LET OTHERS HAVE A TRY


Mats Wiman wrote:

This Swedish view combined with my four years of vivid participation in the KudoZ arena was why I reacted so strongly against the admontion:
"Please don't assist "translators" who clearly haven't a clue"

One should IMHO be very careful to categorise peaople as not having a clue or to condemn them because they are not professionals.

In tradition with ProZ glorious history, the admonition should IMNSHO read:

"Please assist everybody in need of help - IF circumstances and your preferences allow you to"

which I would like to see on every page of ProZ.com and thus become the credo of us all.

[Edited at 2004-01-29 18:13]


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xxxsarahl
Local time: 21:32
English to French
+ ...
Tak Mats! Jan 29, 2004

Thank you for a wonderful suggestion. And for helping us keep our eyes on the ball. I for one believe that Kudoz are about helping. We should be free to decide whom we help and which questions we answer or disregard.
So once again, tak Mats!
Sarah


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Marcus Malabad  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 06:32
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
to Mats Jan 29, 2004

Dear Mats,

Your standing as one of the earliest members of ProZ.com and one of the most active contributors to KudoZ is undisputed. I have only admiration for the magnanimity of spirit that you demonstrate in all your dealings with your colleagues. This you show in your readiness to provide assistance even in instances where others suspect misuse, pranks or abuse.

Please know that I share most of your views on KudoZ and acknowledge that you have only the best intentions in mind.

I know that you have felt disillusioned of late because of resistance to some of your ideas. Know, however, that improvement comes only after robust debate and as a seasoned moderator you could only be aware that this should be the case. You yourself have been in the middle of many a heated moderator discussion!

Please carry on letting us know what your views are. This can only contribute to a balanced view of the universe.

With respect,
Marcus


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Mats Wiman  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 06:32
Member (2000)
German to Swedish
+ ...

MODERATOR
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Marcus! Jan 30, 2004

Dear Marcus,

Thank you very much indeed. Your words are heartwarming and broad-minded.

I'll try to improve as an argument chiseller though.


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bergazy  Identity Verified
Croatia
Local time: 06:32
Croatian to Italian
+ ...
Bravo Mats Jan 30, 2004

Congratulations on being so courageous and natural!

Marko


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 06:32
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Thanks for your 'answer anyway' policy! Feb 2, 2004

I know I haven't a clue in many areas, but I do try to collect them along the way!

I note down things I find on the Net, Kudoz etc. in my dictionaries and add sources after them to indicate reliability. Several times I've found a 'Kudoz, MW' note useful ... Someone else has asked before I got there. Or your agree/disagree comments on other answers, making subtle differences clear.

Swedish is not my main language and I try to refuse jobs that are beyond my capabilities. But sometimes a 'nice easy job' has a sting in the tail - one or two terms I don't know, hidden among the standard phrases.

We all benefit. Mats is not the only person who gives good Kudoz answers, but he is certainly one of the best. Thanks for your good example, Mats, and thanks to everyone who tries to follow it.


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