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non-logged-in visitors using KudoZ
Thread poster: Bernhard Sulzer

Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:52
English to German
+ ...
Sep 26, 2010

I have encountered this in my language directions:
GermanEnglish.
We have had visitors (and currently have one in German>English) who do not log in and keep asking Kudoz questions, one question a day (as permitted), sometimes a few days in a row, then maybe skipping a day; some questions are long, some are short, but they are on the same topic or come from the same text or a series of texts on one specific topic. These visitors might return in a few weeks or even months, whenever their need arises.
I always thought it to be inappropriate for me to help these visitors.
We don't know who they are, what they are, and you can't click on their user names, can't click on any information under their user name. They are anonymous users of the KudoZ system and surely don't have a sense for the idea behind proz.com
But maybe I have misunderstood proz.com from the beginning:
a community of translators helping translators, the translators' workplace, not the free translation place.
Granted, there might be just a few of these "clients" but it makes me feel "dirty" to help if you know what I mean.

I would appreciate your opinions.

Bernhard


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:52
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I would not help them either! Sep 26, 2010

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
a community of translators helping translators, the translators' workplace, not the free translation place.
Granted, there might be just a few of these "clients" but it makes me feel "dirty" to help if you know what I mean.

Indeed, people exploiting the good faith of others is far from my idea of a helping community. I did not/would not help these people.


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Travelin Ann  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:52
French to English
+ ...
If the non-logged-in visitor needs help with a translation - Sep 26, 2010

If the non-logged-in visitor needs help with a translation, helping them fulfills the basic purpose of KudoZ, in my opinion.

Travelin Ann


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Jessica Noyes  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:52
Spanish to English
+ ...
Kudoz settings Sep 26, 2010

I have my settings set so that I don't see questions from non-translators. It's a matter of mousing over your picture at the top of the page, going to My Email Settings, Kudoz Settings, and selecting whose questions you would like to see.

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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 20:52
English to Spanish
+ ...
Empty Profile Sep 26, 2010

There are also those who register on Proz with an empty profile, then ask question after question. I think perhaps Proz management should look for those empty profiles and ask these individuals to enter at least a minimum of information or be canceled out.

Then of course there are many who have a good profile, yet insist on remaining anonymous and dehumanized behind some "screen name". To them I say, if you wish to remain anonymous, then stay off the Net. If you wish to stay here, then get real.

I don't see any problem with an occasional question from someone who is not registered. It could possibly result in a new registration before long.


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Brannigan
Italy
Local time: 04:52
Italian to English
+ ...
Community spririt Sep 26, 2010

I totally understand your point. Being part of a community means giving back. There are numerous people in my language pair (Italian to English) who are neither members nor logged in but they often answer questions and offer their help/comments. I think it's a case of knowing your lot, which inevitably you do if you come on here often enough. I wouldn't want to penalise anyone who doesn't want to be a fixed part of Proz, but I think we have the power to decide who to help. Except of course for the Prozians who are competing for points !!!

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Steffen Walter  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:52
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
Comments/answers not possible when not logged in Sep 26, 2010

Brannigan wrote:
... There are numerous people in my language pair (Italian to English) who are neither members nor logged in but they often answer questions and offer their help/comments...


This is not possible - you can't answer questions or submit comments when using the site as a non-logged in visitor.


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David Wright  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 04:52
German to English
+ ...
Also helps regular members Sep 26, 2010

By providing an answer to anyone whatsoever on ProZ, you are making your knowledge/experience available not only to that one person but to anyone else who needs the same term later. For that reason I see no problem answering the odd "outsider" question. I haven't noticed it on the large scale the original comment refers to.

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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:52
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
what if it is not the odd outsider but registered members asking questions in KudoZ? Sep 26, 2010

David Wright wrote:

By providing an answer to anyone whatsoever on ProZ, you are making your knowledge/experience available not only to that one person but to anyone else who needs the same term later. For that reason I see no problem answering the odd "outsider" question. I haven't noticed it on the large scale the original comment refers to.


Thanks for your thoughts, David.
But what if these non-logged-in visitors show up at your doorstep every day for a week with a sentence to be translated, are you going to do it? Are you going to then forward your free translation to the proz.com glossary? That is if they liked your work. Otherwise, never mind.
And are you also going to do it for all those registered (non-paying) members on proz.com who never contribute and just ask question after question? These would not be the occasional user or odd outsider.
On principle, I do not "help" those anymore who are not translators/students and are not willing to participate in answering questions themselves.
The argument that all translators will "also" benefit from such help is (as far as I am concerned) mute because I don't give translations/help freely, except to those who do the same or in some way contribute to KudoZ (as in comments, forums, etc.).
I thought this was a translators workplace. You help me, I help you.
Otherwise, proz.com is simply that: a place where anybody off the street can get specific new terms/sentences translated for free. Or, more to the point, where anybody can get translators to translate for them for free.
I think I don't see the community spirit in the described cases. I only see that something (my time and knowledge) is given for free.

Just my thoughts.
Thanks again for your input.
I really wanted to know how other translators feel about this.

Bernhard

[Edited at 2010-09-27 12:27 GMT]


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xxxhazmatgerman
Local time: 04:52
English to German
@B.Sulzer Sep 27, 2010

Frankly I do not see quite a problem here. We are perfectly free to answer any question we value, and ignore anything else. More regulation would not improve a situation where a not inconsiderably share of users ignore rules about context or KOG research. Regards.

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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:52
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
what do you do? Sep 27, 2010

hazmatgerman wrote:

Frankly I do not see quite a problem here. We are perfectly free to answer any question we value, and ignore anything else. More regulation would not improve a situation where a not inconsiderably share of users ignore rules about context or KOG research. Regards.


Thank you for your response.
I agree you are free to answer or ignore. But what do you think about people putting in 300 questions and never answering any? Do you answer their questions despite their community ignorance or do you not take into account who is asking?

Bernhard

[Edited at 2010-09-27 15:03 GMT]


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gad
United States
Local time: 22:52
Member
French to English
Yes, helping is the purpose of KudoZ Sep 27, 2010

Travelin Ann wrote:

If the non-logged-in visitor needs help with a translation, helping them fulfills the basic purpose of KudoZ, in my opinion.

Travelin Ann


True...plus, does asking a KudoZ question automatically mean that the person is actually performing a translation? Not necessarily, the person may simply want or need to know the meaning for his/her own purposes. It's kind of funny that so many seem to conclude that anyone daring to ask KudoZ questions is "taking advantage of" other translators and letting such other translators do the work.

JMO


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:52
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
I entirely agree! Sep 27, 2010

hazmatgerman wrote:
Frankly I do not see quite a problem here. We are perfectly free to answer any question we value, and ignore anything else. More regulation would not improve a situation where a not inconsiderably share of users ignore rules about context or KOG research. Regards.

I could not agree more. When I had time to participate in Kudoz more often, I increasingly ignored bad questions and bad askers, and tried to help when there was people in a genuine need and genuinely interested in helping others. I completely stopped answering questions from people who had never (or rarely) helped others.


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Cetacea  Identity Verified
Switzerland
Local time: 04:52
English to German
+ ...
Disregard them Sep 27, 2010

Bernhard Sulzer wrote:
But what do you think about people putting in 300 questions and never answering any? Do you answer their questions despite their community ignorance or do you not take into account who is asking?


I never answer such questions, whether they were posted by a visitor or a member. When somebody has already asked hundreds of questions but never took the time to answer any (or maybe two or three), I ignore them because I'm a strong believer in give-and-take. But that's just me.


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Bernhard Sulzer  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 22:52
English to German
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
non-logged-in askers who do not care who answers their questions Oct 6, 2010

are unfortunately a fact of life. I have no problem helping somebody once or twice but I do not provide free translation services to non-registered, non-logged-in visitors.
In the language pair I mentioned, we see a longer text being slowly translated, sentence by sentence. At least from what I can tell, the asker has asked many questions from the same text. The asker (a non-logged-in visitor) has now modified his/her user name.

Is this a common occurrence? No, I don't think so (not yet, anyway). But it does make me think: what does that person think of our KudoZ system?
or: what does that say about our KudoZ system?
And why do translators continue to answer these questions?

Your thoughts are appreciated.


Bernhard



[Edited at 2010-10-06 00:39 GMT]


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