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Honesty is the best policy - Following on from Cetaceo and non-logged in users
Thread poster: Susanna Garcia

Susanna Garcia  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:04
Italian to English
+ ...
Sep 27, 2010

As the thread was moving off topic and moving into the Kudoz abuse area, I hope it's ok to open a new thread on an old topic.

What do you think - is this the most honest and refreshing answer ever or just taking the p... out of those willing to help? A serial poster, when told that the answers could be researched without too much effort, replied that (to paraphrase) due to tight deadlines, they didn't have the time to do it themselves. Well, that explains the avalanche of questions.

So, not only having accepted work with terminology they were unable to deal with and an uncomfortable deadline, terminology which is btw not the most challenging, they would like their fellow translators to do their work for free. However, must say, context is nearly always provided.

What do you think? Is this is a different matter to the discussions about answer/don't answer.

Suzi


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Madeleine MacRae Klintebo  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:04
Swedish to English
+ ...
No - it's always back to do/don't answer Sep 27, 2010

Working in a "small" language pair you really get to know your questioners as well as answerers. Currently we have one translator (?) in one of my language pairs who's managed to go well beyond 2000 questions whilst contributing to less than 50.

Pretty visible in small language pairs. Still, this person continues to receive help for free.

Since joining ProZ in 2003, I've seen a number of answerers falling off the KudoZ wagon, including me. Some of these answerers were, and possibly still are, moderators. Another who was, and still is, top of the leader board, I haven't seen for awhile. Although I didn't always agree with the answers given by these persons, they were always knowledgable and intelligent.

If you work in "larger" pairs, you might still be able to draw on the wisdom of a large pool of professionals, but without the input of these professionals, SV > EN and EN > SV KudoZ is becoming an amateur quiz evening at your local pub.

I rarely ask KudoZ questions as I work in-house in a very specialised financial field. I usually find relevant terms from discussions with our English and Swedish operational staff. However, I often search through old answers in order to kick-start my brain. These are now becoming more and more irrelevant.


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:04
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Two sides Sep 27, 2010

I think in our world there is people who like to share unilaterally and people who like to exploit shared things. I am not in any of those sides.

Personally I enjoy sharing, but in the case of Kudoz, when I have the time I only share with people who are also willing to share. Helping people who only receive is not only useless, but also makes me poorer with more effort, and another person richer less little effort. Does not make much sense to me!


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Edward Vreeburg  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 09:04
Member (2008)
English to Dutch
+ ...
my 2 ct Sep 27, 2010

just flag those people who ask 20 question a day, and have never answered a question in their life, work at cheap rates and accept jobs they know nothing about - blacklist them, and never answer anything from them again.

Been there, done that, also got the anwer "I prefer to work on a subject I know nothing about, rather then not work at all")...

===
Ed


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Susanna Garcia  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:04
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
The honesty bit Sep 27, 2010

Apologies as I don't think I explained myself properly, what do you think of someone who openly admits they want you/me/us to do their legwork as they've taken on work beyond their capabilities with too tight a deadline. Do you laugh, cry or, always handy, be nasty to your OH.

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Lesley Clarke  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 02:04
Spanish to English
Well, it depends Sep 28, 2010

To be fair, it may not be a habit of theirs to accept more than they can do, it may just have been a nasty slip up.

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Susanna Garcia  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:04
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Slip-up Sep 28, 2010

If only .....

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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:04
French to English
Yes, but.... Sep 28, 2010

Lesley Clarke wrote:

To be fair, it may not be a habit of theirs to accept more than they can do, it may just have been a nasty slip up.



.... if we allow that, and if we allow that they are up front, 'fess up and say "whoops, bitten off more than I can chew", and they get oodles of help, then it does set a pattern. And they can feel free to accept jobs they otherwise couldn't handle, safe in the knowledge there are tons of mugs on here only too willing to bend over backwards to help.

Indeed, I know of one Fr-En translator, because she told me in an email, who deliberately set out to target a field with lots of work she knew nothing whatsoever about at the outset - environmental services - because she knew she would get help here and she was, and I quote, "laughing all the way to the bank".


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Iva Halbauer  Identity Verified
Canada
Croatian to English
+ ...
I couldn't agree more. Sep 28, 2010

I've just joined, but I've already recognized the specific behaviour. There is a translator (not logged in, of course) in my pair who asks tons of questions (almost the whole text) week after week and sometimes shows general lack of intelligence (I'm sorry to say so). But how would you call a person who posts a misspelled word and needs explanation that it was probably mistyped in the text?
And then, after getting several answers he (or she) does not even bother to award the answerer: "closed without grading".
Funny, ha?
The fields this asker works in are professional and serious; I sometimes wonder who can accept such a work and pay for it?
Anyways, this topic is so real.


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Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:04
English to Croatian
+ ...
Haaa. Sep 28, 2010

Edward Vreeburg wrote:

also got the anwer "I prefer to work on a subject I know nothing about, rather then not work at all")...



Anti-heroes and proud of it?

There's a clear distinction between consultation and tutoring as they operate on completely different levels. The KudoZ should cover the former, but not the latter.

Not only do these people often show a lack of expert's knowledge, but also they appear to get all tangled up in syntactic and verbal structures, style etc. So, it's not only about the "subject they don't know", it's also about language and verbal expressions they don't know.

[Edited at 2010-09-28 13:12 GMT]


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Susanna Garcia  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:04
Italian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Reaction Sep 29, 2010

I hear the sound of worms turning.

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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Non-logged in users are just the tip of the iceberg Sep 29, 2010

How about clueless people (and I do mean clueless, not just slightly in over their heads) who jump from one language pair to another (none of which includes asker's actual native language) and post the max 15 questions a day allowed? Month after month, job after job. Scant or no context, with many questions that a primary school child could answer (after a few weeks of classes).
Where is the honesty in that? The policy is clearly one of dishonesty in all meanings of the word. In one notable case, the person is fully embedded in the site and fully badged up.
Fortunately such extreme cases are rare but this sort of dishonesty is prevalent in less extreme forms.
Imo, non-logged in users are just the tip of the iceberg.


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Inga Petkelyte  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 08:04
Lithuanian to Portuguese
+ ...
Suzi Sep 29, 2010

I simply don't answer any more.

When I see someone asking a term, especially on a PRO basis, that any high school student would easily find in the first at hand vocabulary, and when I see that smily (sic!, why not) asker's face whenever they get a job - and you can tell easily when they finally landed a job, then I ask myself - do such people have any shame at all ?

And no, I don't answer, even if I know the term perfectly and could increase my PRO-point score without an effort.


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 01:04
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
If only... Sep 29, 2010

Inga Petkelyte wrote:

I simply don't answer any more.

When I see someone asking a term, especially on a PRO basis, that any high school student would easily find in the first at hand vocabulary, and when I see that smily (sic!, why not) asker's face whenever they get a job - and you can tell easily when they finally landed a job, then I ask myself - do such people have any shame at all ?

And no, I don't answer, even if I know the term perfectly and could increase my PRO-point score without an effort.


I don't answer any more either but if only no-one would answer, then we might actually bring the message home that this is not acceptable.


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Do away with KudoZ points Sep 29, 2010

Tina Vonhof wrote:

Inga Petkelyte wrote:

I simply don't answer any more.

When I see someone asking a term, especially on a PRO basis, that any high school student would easily find in the first at hand vocabulary, and when I see that smily (sic!, why not) asker's face whenever they get a job - and you can tell easily when they finally landed a job, then I ask myself - do such people have any shame at all ?

And no, I don't answer, even if I know the term perfectly and could increase my PRO-point score without an effort.


I don't answer any more either but if only no-one would answer, then we might actually bring the message home that this is not acceptable.


and the rush to answer will stop. Genuine problems will receive help and the Kudoz pointZ-chasers will drop by the wayside unless they really can make a useful contribution to the answer. The glory will be in providing valuable knowledge and not in running after and collecting meaningless pointZ. And Askers just may be forced to start doing their own work and not turning to two-legged dictionaries/research 'engines'.


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