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KudoZ related to Jobs posted
Thread poster: Lingua 5B

Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:35
English to Croatian
+ ...
Dec 3, 2010

I wanna know if anyone else have noticed the following occurrence:

You see a translation job posted on ProZ or some other on-line platform with full job-description, and as soon as the bidding period has expired you see KudoZ questions related to that specific job on the KudoZ board. One or two questions is OK, but I don't understand why would a bid winner (?) need to ask so many questions? Wouldn't they have to be the bidding winners because their knowledge is superior to that of others?

I also wanna know if you noticed this in your respective language pair, or am I maybe just tripping? I've seen it happening too many times for it to be a coincidence, in terms that questions are not related to that specific job I saw, but accidentally just something similar to it. The questions just match too much the job description/ content.

Comments?


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Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 14:35
Member (2004)
English to Thai
+ ...
Collaboration Dec 3, 2010

I understand that progress in Internet connection makes translators share wisdom on specific job of the other: a quicker way to complete the mission in various language pairs.

Soonthon Lupkitaro


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Erik Freitag  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:35
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
misconception Dec 3, 2010

Lingua 5B wrote:

Wouldn't they have to be the bidding winners because their knowledge is superior to that of others?



I think this is a misconception of the way many agencies work: These translators have won the contract not because of their superior knowledge, but because of their low prices.


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Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:35
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
OK I see Dec 3, 2010

Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.) wrote:

I understand that progress in Internet connection makes translators share wisdom on specific job of the other: a quicker way to complete the mission in various language pairs.

Soonthon Lupkitaro


Although bidding is always anonymous, these people basically ( implicitly) disclose themselves as bid winners to the public. Or more precisely, as under-confident bid winners who depend on an extensive support from the community in order to complete their job.

Again, it may just appear like that, that's why I wanted to hear opinion from other colleagues.


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veratek
Brazil
Local time: 04:35
French to English
+ ...
what's the problem? Dec 3, 2010

Every time you look up a word in a dictionary, you ask a question and you get an answer. Every time you do a search on the internet, the same thing. There is nothing wrong about asking questions to humans or to "other sources." And as someone mentioned, there is the question of time. Proz is a valuable resource and it should be used. What is relevant is that a translator can do the job well in the end, for the price and deadline that is compatible with the client's needs. I think people should ask as many questions as they want or need to (according to the rules, obviously).

I suppose if you are annoyed that someone else knows less than you, and possibly still got a job because they've offered to do it for a lower rate, although it may have been for other reasons as well, you could always refrain from helping them in ProZ.


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Anton Shcheglov  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 09:35
English to Russian
+ ...
I noticed this strange "coincidence" several times in my laguage pair :-) Dec 3, 2010

And I also continue coming across some phrases and sentences among KudoZ questions that are obviously taken from translation tests provided by my country's translation agencies.

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Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:35
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Not about helping/not helping Dec 3, 2010

veratek wrote:

I suppose if you are annoyed that someone else knows less than you, and possibly still got a job because they've offered to do it for a lower rate, although it may have been for other reasons as well, you could always refrain from helping them in ProZ.


I'm not annoyed, but you do seem a bit.

I just wanted to check if someone else perceived the same thing. I like to hear various opinions and view angles.

About your assumption that they can still do a job well in the end, in my opinion they can't, if they need to ask very simple questions; and additionally, the way in which they ask questions tells a lot about their competence, or rather incompetence.


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Natalia Kobzareva  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 10:35
Member (2009)
English to Russian
+ ...
I noticed this too Dec 3, 2010

Once I saw a couple of questions from the test offered by the translation agency to select the winner.
As for myself, I first asked about the price, and having received the answer, decided not to take part in the tender.
The asker in my pair apparently thought otherwise.
When I saw this, I wrote to this agency drawing its attention to the fact that its low prices do not guarantee quality, because qualified translators rarely ask two questions on a short paragraph.
Apparently, I received no feedback.

[Edited at 2010-12-03 15:53 GMT]


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Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:35
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Also confidentiality.. Dec 3, 2010

Natalia Kobzareva wrote:


When I saw this, I wrote to this agency drawing its attention to the fact that its low prices do not guarantee quality, because qualified translators rarely ask two questions on a short paragraph.


Don't these people care about confidentiality at all? It's a public view.

Translation tests, and generally evaluation tests ( or their portions) shouldn't be available publicly.


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Schtroumpf
Local time: 09:35
German to French
+ ...
Sharing is OK, but... Dec 3, 2010

Hi Lingua 5B,

sorry for my poor English, but this is just to let you know that I happen) sometimes to see exactly the kind of "phenomenon" you described. People get jobs but are definitely not that much qualified for them... or even worse: sometimes I feel that they CAN offer low rates because they ask part of the job to be done by helpful communities, for nothing.

My personal attitude is:
- look at the level of the asker's questions. If necessary enter "non-pro" in order to give these colleagues some feedback, amically but firmly.
- refrain from helping people that are eating up ones own market-share (in my personal case this has hardly ever happened - I do not work for Proz jobs but just have a glance at them as a kind of market review).
- look at the number of questions some people asked. There are global champions who asked more than 2000 questions and answered less than 20. I do see no point in "helping" these peope. It will even make them ever less autonomous, no?

Well then, I am still on Kudoz very often because we have got a really positive exchange level with many many competent translators who are not concerned by my critical advice juste above.
And I love **sharing** knowledge as much as I hate spilling it for nothing!


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Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:35
French to German
+ ...
My doubts Dec 3, 2010

I share Lingua 5B's doubts and, even if there is no way I will paint the world black and white, there are way too many questions about the proficiency of some bid winners...

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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:35
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
To me, it is all entirely logical Dec 3, 2010

Excellent translators typically have minimum rates that the typical posters on the proz.com Jobs Board consider too high. Low bidders typically have marginal skills or may even be downright unqualified for the jobs that they obtain. Hence the high degree of dependence on Kudoz help.

Doesn't it make perfect sense?


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imatahan  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 04:35
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Many times! Dec 3, 2010

And what I think that is worse is when I find someone asking on ProZ terms and phrases of the test I've just submitted...

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Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 09:35
English to Croatian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Weakest link strategy Dec 3, 2010

imatahan wrote:

And what I think that is worse is when I find someone asking on ProZ terms and phrases of the test I've just submitted...


Maybe one could give them a wrong answer on purpose, as a part of winning strategy. They are kind of asking for it. It's just an idea, of course.

You should simply refrain from answering their question.

[Edited at 2010-12-03 19:02 GMT]


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Ildiko Santana  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:35
Member (2002)
Hungarian to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
very discouraging Dec 3, 2010


Maybe one could give them a wrong answer on purpose, as a part of winning strategy. They are kind of asking for it.


That is just so sad... There are plenty wrong answers already (many even saved in the glossary) without the deliberate ill will, just out of pure incompetency. As long as points can be earned, there will be those who submit their guesses whether they have sufficient knowledge or not, just for the points. Blind leading the blind is becoming more and more common as it is. KudoZ glossaries need to be used with caution. What's worse though, is that if incorrect answers are taken seriously and incorporated into *real* translation jobs, the overall quality of completed jobs will suffer and substandard texts will be circulated. Most clients cannot tell the difference between good and bad quality of the translations. Same goes for the end-clients. Promoting the willful deterioration of our profession (out of spite or for petty envy) is the saddest thing I've heard on this site. : (


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