| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4] > | Proposal that people who answer questions via the Kudoz system should be obliged to be nice. Thread poster: Michael Beijer
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Michael Beijer 
United Kingdom
Local time: 23:19
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Yes, I know, this sounds like a joke. However, I am not joking.
I am SICK AND TIRED of dealing with certain people's dour sarcastic know-it-all attitude while so-called "helping" others in the KudoZ questions. Please, either help or don't help, but don't pretend to help just as an excuse to point out how terribly clever you are. We already know all of that: you probably charge twice as much as we do, have been translating since 1924, have many more dictionaries than we do, and a st... See more Yes, I know, this sounds like a joke. However, I am not joking.
I am SICK AND TIRED of dealing with certain people's dour sarcastic know-it-all attitude while so-called "helping" others in the KudoZ questions. Please, either help or don't help, but don't pretend to help just as an excuse to point out how terribly clever you are. We already know all of that: you probably charge twice as much as we do, have been translating since 1924, have many more dictionaries than we do, and a study, and smoke a pipe, and you also just so happen to translate into and out of French, German, Spanish, Danish, Russian and Flemish, ... we concede complete and utter defeat. We will never be as Professional as you are. However, that is not why we asked that question. We don't care about all of that. All we want is a friendly answer to our question. It's quite simple really; focus on our QUESTION, not on the validity of our asking it.
There are a number of people who NEVER answer ANYTHING, but do find enough time to criticise those of us that do in our every move.
This is counter-productive to the entire site.
There are those among us who no longer dare to ask questions, for fear of being made a fool of. There are many people out there who are good translators, but for whatever reason, are not very good at the KudoZ system. Sadly, there are also a number of people out there who are "really good at The KudoZ System", but really bad at simply being nice.
I therefore suggest that we all try to remember what our mothers once taught us:
"If you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all."
Please.
Michael ▲ Collapse
| | | | | The system exists - | Dec 10, 2010 |
There is already a method in place to try to assure that KudoZ is a productive and pleasant place to work - the volunteer Moderator.
There are several rules that participants should respect, especially rules 3.5, 3.6 and 3.7,
http://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=kudoz_answ
If you feel that those rules have been violated, then ... See more There is already a method in place to try to assure that KudoZ is a productive and pleasant place to work - the volunteer Moderator.
There are several rules that participants should respect, especially rules 3.5, 3.6 and 3.7,
http://www.proz.com/?sp=siterules&mode=show&category=kudoz_answ
If you feel that those rules have been violated, then please call a Moderator to the question, using the button provided on each question.
I hope this helps.
Travelin Ann ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:19
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Personalities.. | Dec 10, 2010 |
Some people seem to get an emotional rise out of KudoZ. It's weird..
Anyways, the previous thread about people not providing context is related to their lack of professional knowledge, but being nice/not nice is associated with personality type.
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I completely agree with you, Michael. Such sarcastic attitude can be found in most threads. Thank you for raising this question and hopefully we can get some solution to this.
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PT Translati (X)
United States
Local time: 15:19
Japanese to English
| ...been translating since 1924.... | Dec 10, 2010 |
We already know all of that: you probably charge twice as much as we do, have been translating since 1924, have many more dictionaries than we do, and a study, and smoke a pipe, and you also just so happen to translate into and out of French, German, Spanish, Danish, Russian and Flemish, ... we concede complete and utter defeat.
LOL I just spit out my diet coke on my keyboard reading the above section.
I do agree with you though. People in my language combo are generally respectful/helpful (while being competitive), but I have seen some outright nastiness in other language combos.
The current system sort of breeds both competition and sabotage though, IMO.
| | | | Paul Cohen
Greenland
Local time: 21:19
German to English
+ ...
| These people are already being punished | Dec 10, 2010 |
Michael,
You may or may not notice it on a daily basis, but the moderators normally rapidly move in and very strictly enforce all of the rules behind the scenes. With all the intensive wrist-slapping and cudgeling going on at the site to keep answerers in line, I can only imagine that all these pipe-smoking, dictionary-toting, polyglot know-it-alls who have been translating since 1924 are, in effect, not smug armchair experts at all but actually "slap-me-again,-please-sir/ma'am" ma... See more Michael,
You may or may not notice it on a daily basis, but the moderators normally rapidly move in and very strictly enforce all of the rules behind the scenes. With all the intensive wrist-slapping and cudgeling going on at the site to keep answerers in line, I can only imagine that all these pipe-smoking, dictionary-toting, polyglot know-it-alls who have been translating since 1924 are, in effect, not smug armchair experts at all but actually "slap-me-again,-please-sir/ma'am" masochists if they persist in making critical, personal, non-linguistic remarks in the KudoZ forums. Believe me, they are being severely punished for their sins -- and will probably soon be ejected from the site. Hundreds of sharp-tongued translators have already been sent packing in the past.
The other side of the coin, of course, is that there are plenty of good reasons to make the occasional (unwanted?) cautious remark, especially given the scores of questions that grace this site every day from people who are clearly hopelessly out of their depth. In a genuine professional atmosphere where people treat each other like adults, it should be possible, for example, to say something when a person, who is obviously not up to the job, asks loads of medical and/or technical questions for a translation of questionable quality that could lead to somebody taking the wrong dosage of medicine or getting electrocuted.
I'll also admit that I'm occasionally very sorely tempted to ask certain folks if they wouldn't prefer to pass the job on to somebody who is actually qualified to do it -- but I resist, I don't get my kicks out of getting pistol-whipped and beaten by the mods -- although I do often wonder if it's professional of us not to say anything at all in situations where the likely outcome may at least be the occupational equivalent of a massive drug overdose and/or electrocution.
As answerers we also often run into situations where newbies and oldbies alike ask questions but steadfastly refuse to provide context. This paves the way for a guessing game that nobody can win, although points are ultimately distributed, nonetheless. In fact, there is currently a proposal to oblige askers to provide context. You'll find that thread here: http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/186698-proposal_that_people_who_post_questions_via_the_kudoz_system_be_obliged_to_provide_context.html
Have a nice weekend,
Paul
[Edited at 2010-12-11 00:34 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Nothing weird at all | Dec 11, 2010 |
Lingua 5B wrote:
Some people seem to get an emotional rise out of KudoZ. It's weird..
Anyways, the previous thread about people not providing context is related to their lack of professional knowledge, but being nice/not nice is associated with personality type.
I do agree with the being nice/not nice part,but it's not weird at all people getting emotional rises out of KudoZ. The fact is that there are some rotten apples out there, who either or both are full of arrogance or have personality issues who come to vent their anger/frustration or just want somebody's attention like a three-year old.
Like PT Translation pointed out, it is true that in his/my language pair people are generally respecful and helpful while being competitive, but I have seen many ugly situations in other language pairs where certain types of people making snide comments or even testing other people's patience and grinning in front of their PCs and waiting for their targets to lose it.
| | | | | Freedom when asking, freedom when answering | Dec 11, 2010 |
To me the greatness (sometimes a weakness) of Kudoz is the fact that you can behave with a great degree of freedom.
As an answerer, with some people it is a pleasure to help: they prepare their questions in detail, explain their difficulties and their doubt, report what efforts they had made before asking, and thank their colleagues in advance. If, on top of that, they also answer questions, they have my full respect.
With some people, however, my heart and mind scream ... See more To me the greatness (sometimes a weakness) of Kudoz is the fact that you can behave with a great degree of freedom.
As an answerer, with some people it is a pleasure to help: they prepare their questions in detail, explain their difficulties and their doubt, report what efforts they had made before asking, and thank their colleagues in advance. If, on top of that, they also answer questions, they have my full respect.
With some people, however, my heart and mind scream that I am a fool helping them: they simply paste a section of their source text as the sole explanation, don't explain their doubt, don't report any previous effort, don't thank their colleagues, have a ghost/empty profile in Proz.com, and don't react or react in an arrogant manner when queried for more information or reminded of the minimum rules of courtesy. I no longer despise them and regret that they are part of the profession (I confess that I used to), but... no longer help them and filter them out as soon as I detect them.
Keep Kudoz as it is, and each person will use it the way he/she feels is best. ▲ Collapse
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JaneD
Sweden
Local time: 00:19
Member (2009)
Swedish to English
+ ...
| Shame it's a limited solution | Dec 11, 2010 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
no longer help them and filter them out as soon as I detect them.
Me too.
I only wish I could filter out abusive askers, rude answerers, irresponsible posters and deliberate trolls of all sorts, both across the Internet and from my entire life!
| | | | hazmatgerman (X)
Local time: 00:19
English to German
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Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
To me the greatness (sometimes a weakness) of Kudoz is the fact that you can behave with a great degree of freedom.
As an answerer, with some people it is a pleasure to help: they prepare their questions in detail, explain their difficulties and their doubt, report what efforts they had made before asking, and thank their colleagues in advance. If, on top of that, they also answer questions, they have my full respect.
With some people, however, my heart and mind scream that I am a fool helping them: they simply paste a section of their source text as the sole explanation, don't explain their doubt, don't report any previous effort, don't thank their colleagues, have a ghost/empty profile in Proz.com, and don't react or react in an arrogant manner when queried for more information or reminded of the minimum rules of courtesy. I no longer despise them and regret that they are part of the profession (I confess that I used to), but... no longer help them and filter them out as soon as I detect them.
Keep Kudoz as it is, and each person will use it the way he/she feels is best.
| | | | Paul VALET (X)
France
Local time: 00:19
| A fairly good criterion | Dec 11, 2010 |
Michael J.W. Beijer wrote:
(...) and smoke a pipe, (...)
Michael
This should definitely be THE criterion for answering Kudoz questions. Look, even Jean-Paul Sartre himself used to smoke a pipe: that's a reason.
Another criterion would be to drink alcohol in large quantities, all this monitored through webcams.
Thus, there would be a pretty good renewal of Kudoz answerers.
[Modifié le 2010-12-11 13:30 GMT]
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Cetacea
Switzerland
Local time: 00:19
English to German
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| Troll Filter | Dec 11, 2010 |
Janed wrote:
I only wish I could filter out abusive askers, rude answerers, irresponsible posters and deliberate trolls of all sorts, both across the Internet and from my entire life!
There is such a filter, Janed: Simply ignore them. Drives 'em crazy, especially the trolls.
On a more serious note, I must say I agree with Paul:
The other side of the coin, of course, is that there are plenty of good reasons to make the occasional (unwanted?) cautious remark, especially given the scores of questions that grace this site every day from people who are clearly hopelessly out of their depth. (...)
I'll also admit that I'm occasionally very sorely tempted to ask certain folks if they wouldn't prefer to pass the job on to somebody who is actually qualified to do it -- but I resist, I don't get my kicks out of getting pistol-whipped and beaten by the mods -- although I do often wonder if it's professional of us not to say anything at all in situations where the likely outcome may at least be the occupational equivalent of a massive drug overdose and/or electrocution.
[Edited at 2010-12-11 13:42 GMT]
| | | | Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 00:19
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| KudoZ behavior | Dec 11, 2010 |
Paul VALET wrote:
Another criterion would be to drink alcohol in large quantities, all this monitored through webcams.
Some KudoZ participants display infantile behavior which gives me an impression they indeed drink large amounts of alcohol.
[Edited at 2010-12-11 14:09 GMT]
| | | | 4leavedClover
Bulgaria
Local time: 01:19
English to Bulgarian
+ ...
| “Manners are the happy ways of doing things.” (Ralph Waldo Emerson) | Dec 11, 2010 |
People who agree/disagree with somebody’s answer should also be nice.
I find it extremely useful to answer KudoZ questions not only because of the points or excitement but because of the training and experience I gain. It has happened to me several times to answer a question and soon after that to encounter the same term in my piece of work.
Unfortunately I have also been mocked at a lot for my answers, with or without any particular reason. I have had agreements hinting or even ... See more People who agree/disagree with somebody’s answer should also be nice.
I find it extremely useful to answer KudoZ questions not only because of the points or excitement but because of the training and experience I gain. It has happened to me several times to answer a question and soon after that to encounter the same term in my piece of work.
Unfortunately I have also been mocked at a lot for my answers, with or without any particular reason. I have had agreements hinting or even stating literally “Well done! You finally invented the wheel” or patronising comments like “It is XXX, not YYY” while your answer is YYY and somebody else’s is XXX, or even simply mocking at my nickname by twisting it in various forms, thus saying “You are so green!” What would you say if somebody consistently voted either against you and/or for all the other answers, no matter which is the appropriate one? What would you think of a person who states “The dictionary you use is crappy, mine is perfect”
People who agree/disagree with somebody’s answer should also be nice! ▲ Collapse
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