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Proposal that non-members not be allowed to vote on Kudoz answers
Thread poster: Anthony Bock

Anthony Bock  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:46
Serbian to English
+ ...
Feb 21, 2011

I think Proz membership should be a minimum condition for being able to vote on other people's answers. If you can't afford or aren't willing to pay 10 USD a month for membership why should your opinion count? What is to stop someone from creating five different accounts and voting for his/her own answer with all of them?

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Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule

Enrique
Local time: 21:46
SITE STAFF
There are effective mechanisms to deal with fraud Feb 21, 2011

Hi Anthony,

There are no plans to limit KudoZ participation to ProZ.com members.

Regarding your concerns, there are effective mechanisms to deal with fraud in the site and the (very rare) instances found are handled with severity.

Regards,
Enrique


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Aude Sylvain  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 02:46
English to French
+ ...
rationale? Feb 21, 2011

Anthony Bock wrote:

I think Proz membership should be a minimum condition for being able to vote on other people's answers. If you can't afford or aren't willing to pay 10 USD a month for membership why should your opinion count?


Hi Anthony,

I don't understand the reason behind that idea...

Replying to KudoZ (or commenting on others' replies) does not equate to giving an opinion. The aim is to provide linguistic help to colleagues.

Your post raises at least 2 questions:

- does the fact that one pays USD10 a month guarantee that s/he is a competent professional (and, most important, does the fact that someone doesn't pay those USD10 prove that s/he's not a competent linguist)?

- when people join ProZ as members while they've been translating since decades, does that mean that they were not able to offer valuable help to colleagues until they became a member??




[Edited at 2011-02-21 13:05 GMT]


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lidija68  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 02:46
Italian to Serbian
+ ...
not everybody can afford a membership Feb 21, 2011

average salary income (monthly) in your living country, Serbia, is about 300 euro, so 10 euro a month is a lot of money for an average serbian translator

and there are also countries where you earn less than that...

***************
-english is not my working language-


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
I don't agree at all Feb 21, 2011

How can the ability and/or willingness to spend money on membership be equated with knowledge or translation skills?
In fact, some people are non-paying members for several years before they decide to join. Does this mean their opinions go from not-counting to counting once they click on the 'pay now' button?


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Anthony Bock  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:46
Serbian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
. Feb 21, 2011

@Enrique - thanks for the response

@Aude - The responses aren't really linguistic help, they are just an opinion on another person's linguistic help. I think members should definitely still be able to provide answers, just not vote on other people's answers.

To answer your questions
- No, being a paying member does not mean you are qualified, but not being one definitely says something about your professional abilities just like not owning a computer or not using CAT tools.
- Everyone would still be able to provide valuable help in the form of answers and through the discussion box

@lidija68 - factory workers and government employees make 300 euros a month. Most translators I know here in Serbia make 4-5 times that much and can definitely afford to pay for membership.


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Anthony Bock  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:46
Serbian to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
oops! Feb 21, 2011

Anthony Bock wrote:

@Aude - The responses aren't really linguistic help, they are just an opinion on another person's linguistic help. I think members should definitely still be able to provide answers, just not vote on other people's answers.


Sorry, what I meant to say is

@Aude - The votes aren't really linguistic help, they are just an opinion on another person's linguistic help. I think non-members should definitely still be able to provide answers, just not vote on other people's answers.


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Aude Sylvain  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 02:46
English to French
+ ...
- Feb 21, 2011

Thanks Anthony,

I still do not agree though.

Anthony Bock wrote:
@Aude - The responses aren't really linguistic help, they are just an opinion on another person's linguistic help. I think members should definitely still be able to provide answers, just not vote on other people's answers.
(...)
- Everyone would still be able to provide valuable help in the form of answers and through the discussion box


Of course, giving agrees/disagrees is a linguistic help - it can assist the asker in making a decision.
Would you be in favour of seeing users (vs. paying members) posting exactly the same reply as a member only because s/he cannot agree to the latter?

Anthony Bock wrote: ...not being [a member] definitely says something about your professional abilities...

I disagree wholeheartedly. The example given by Writeway is pretty interesting in that regard :
Writeway wrote: ...In fact, some people are non-paying members for several years before they decide to join. Does this mean their opinions go from not-counting to counting once they click on the 'pay now' button?


Aude


Edit: just saw your 2nd (3rd) post - yes it was clear, thanks!

[Edited at 2011-02-21 13:34 GMT]


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Gudrun Wolfrath  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:46
English to German
+ ...
Anthony, Feb 21, 2011

Paying a membership fee does not make you a linguistic expert.
I don't understand your reasoning.

Gudrun


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 02:46
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
This proposal is against the spirit of Proz.com Feb 21, 2011

It would reduce the value of KudoZ enormously.

In some cases, it would mean the exclusion of some of the most useful contributors, because the comments add importantly to the answers, confirm guesses and refine suggestions.

If non-paying users were not allowed to contribute to KudoZ and the forums, it would in fact reduce the value of the site so much that I might not find it worth the subscription!

I freewheel on other sites and services, where I do not miss the 'paying members only ' features. Apart from that, my son is grown up and earning his own money, the mortgage is paid, and I can afford the subscription better now than twenty years ago (if it had existed then).

Proz.com has enough paying members to pay staff and provide a very good service.
But right from the beginning, and especially in the early days, the site has relied on the content provided by volunteer Moderators, members and users who gave and still give their expertise free of charge.
We all gain more than we contribute, because all contributions remain available for everyone.

"Give what you can and take what you need" actually works here, and everyone benefits!


[Edited at 2011-02-21 13:57 GMT]


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Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 22:46
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Too much for Brazilians Feb 21, 2011

I totally disagree with the statement made by the post starter that not being a member says something negative about your abilities as a translator. Indeed, I have seen cases of paying members presenting poor translation work, whereas I consider myself a reasonably good translator and have never had complaints from clients, even though I'm not a paying member.

I enjoy participating in ProZ (answering much more than asking) and feel that the right to vote on answers is essential, for example, when your answer has already been given. As posting exactly the same answer is senseless and even unethical, a vote could be the support the answerer needs to back up the answer with which you agree.

Another point is that 10 Euros per month is a lot for the average Brazilian translator, mainly because free-lance translators have to establish companies by São Paulo State Law (not sure if this is valid in the rest of the country) and then most of the money you make goes to the Government in taxes.

In Brazil the legal minimum wage is 545 Reais which is only about 200 Euros per month, while just the basic food hamper (cesta básica) costs almost half that.


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Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 02:46
English to Croatian
+ ...
It doesn't. Feb 21, 2011

Paul Dixon wrote:

I totally disagree with the statement made by the post starter that not being a member says something negative about your abilities as a translator.


It doesn't, but perhaps it says something about your capacity as a business person.

@ Anthony: I don't think it's possible for one person to log in under different accounts ( ProZ system doesn't allow it, but I'm not 100% sure). However, it is theoretically possible that some KudoZ enthusiasts may engage their friends, colleagues, cousins ( or whoever) to do log in under different accounts. That's why I don't trust people who have 5 or more WWAs from unknown registered profiles with zero information. Especially when I compare WWA dates with registration dates.

I'd like ProZ not to understand the above suspicions as claims, but as what they are - suspicions and realistic possibilities.


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Lancashireman  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:46
German to English
Interesting idea Feb 21, 2011

Here are three further variations:
- Paying members only to post answers but non-paying members may vote
- Paying members AND non-paying members may post answers and vote
- NEITHER Paying members NOR non-paying members may post answers or vote


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 02:46
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Don't agree Feb 21, 2011

I know quite a few excellent translators in my language pair who are not members and have made significant contributions to quality in Kudoz.

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