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regarding offensive user
Thread poster: nekonote

nekonote  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 15:50
Member (2009)
English to Japanese
+ ...
Jun 25, 2011

Hi.

I had a bad experience at KudoZ, where I sometimes answer the posted questions mainly.
One user left a real obnoxous and extremely rude comment in Japanese, so I asked forhelp tp the support centre.
Thanks to the support team, his comment was hidden. I received also a short message (without apology) from this user (to my email address). He claims he's a native speaker of English (I think American), but our correspondance was all in Japanese. After some email exchanges, he finally apologized in a polite way, with his final protest (of course...). So I replied to him with my apology for any sarcasm I used intentionally and this case was closed.

I again found the same person left peer comment, this time in English, to my answer, but was hidden after a couple of hours. This time, I took his coment as an advice "to revise what I wrote before I post anything". I don't know who hid his comment, but anyway I decided to send a message from this website, just being nice enough to show my appreciation despite his offence.
I wrote the message in English, and now I received a reply from him with one single line in (again very rude and not very accurate) Japanese: SPEAK JAPANESE!!!! (with big bold font)

When he writes in Japanese, there were too many rude expressions and mis-usage of words (I don't care about small mistakes, but inconsistant speech level, no respect, lack of proper knowledge after all). What he basically claims is that my English is difficult to understand. First one I mentioned above (written in Japanese) was "your English explanation is too difficult to understand. Why don't you write in Japanese until you can somewhat explain in English?" and this second time was just "your English is still dificult to understand" with actual comment to my answer.

I admit there were shamefully great amount of mis-spellings, and yet the asker was nice enough to agree with my answer and provoded me more information as I asked.

In both case, I asked my American mate if my English is that much poor, and he told me "NO".

Despite his moking comment, I modestly admitted the fact I actually never read what I wrote prior to posting answers. He kind of making me realise that I should/must do it. So I try to be nice, no sarcasm, pure appreciation. Now what he wrote shocked me.

I know he leaves some nasty comments some other pages too. I thought he'd never leave even a comment to what I post.
He hasn't got membership, and leaves comments like "I'm THE native speaker of English". I don't know what his intention is, but it definitely hesitates me to use this site actively. I don't want to make this second case too big, since support team or he himself anyway has hidden the nasty comment of mocking my English.

I will, of course, never ever contact him again. However, I don't really know what I should do. Should I again report this person as abusive user (which I really believe so now)? Does anyone have similar experience?

Thank you in advance for any advice and comments.

best regards


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:50
English to Arabic
+ ...
Report everything Jun 25, 2011

Hi nekonote,

I know exactly how you feel, having been on the receiving end of very venomous emails from a native English speaking Proz user who made it her mission in life to insult me and my family (!) in the vilest way possible for one (one!) mistake I made (not even on this site, but in a private message).
It felt so much better to share my frustration here on this forum and I got a lot good advice and kind words from the lovely colleagues on this site. But the best and most proper way to deal with it is to report everything to site staff (or moderators, if the abuse is taking place on a particular Kudoz page), as they have certain procedures in place for people who act in such an unacceptable way, and will communicate with that person on your behalf (I believe!), so you don't have to.

Unfortunately Proz is an open forum, so as in real life, trolls, bullies, and worse, could be lurking around. But luckily good usually prevails over evil here

Good luck!

Nesrin


[Edited at 2011-06-25 09:01 GMT]


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Lennart Luhtaru  Identity Verified
United States
Member
English to Estonian
+ ...
Get over it Jun 25, 2011

There are Internet trolls everywhere, no point in ever talking to them

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nekonote  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 15:50
Member (2009)
English to Japanese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you Jun 25, 2011

Thank you, Nesrin and Lennart.

Of course I'll NEVER EVER talk to this malicious bloke.

I never used forum to share frustration, but, Nesrin, you're right. Not only request support to the site members, but sharing here is another way (although I understand that not all comments I'd receive can be nice).

It seems anyway the "appropriate action" was taken (hide the comment), I wasn't sure if I still should report or not.

Thank you both


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Stéphanie Soudais  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 07:50
Member (2006)
English to French
But you already reported him? Jun 25, 2011

nekonote wrote:
I don't really know what I should do. Should I again report this person as abusive user (which I really believe so now)?


Yes, first thing to do is to contact one moderator in your pair.

nekonote wrote:

One user left a real obnoxous and extremely rude comment in Japanese, so I asked for help tp the support centre. Thanks to the support team, his comment was hidden.


So you already sent a support ticket? If so, you can re-open it and add new information about this user (i.e. links to relevant kudoz).

And if you received offensive private emails, you can also report them to the support team, under rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/general/2#2


Best regards,
Stéphanie


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nekonote  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 15:50
Member (2009)
English to Japanese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you very much for prompt actions and suggestions!! Jun 25, 2011

Dear Stéphanie:

Thank you very much for moving this forum to the appropriate topic.

I really appreciate what you recommended to do.

Yes, this is actually the second time I had "your English is difficult to understand" comment from same user. I will then re-open the ticket and report about him.

I could see his comment only because I receive new e-mail alert to my mobile and in the email, I could see the contents, which had been already hidden by the time I signed in.

As the language pair, the person in question and the comments are always same, maybe the best is re-open the ticket and report all those emails under the link you gave me.

Thank you very much for the help!!

best regards,
nekonote


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Nesrin  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:50
English to Arabic
+ ...
One further advice: Jun 25, 2011

Even if you were civil enough not to write out/translate the offensive words he used in his email to you, I suggest you actually translate even the most offensive remarks he made in your support ticket. The general public doesn't need to know all the details, but I think the site staff should have a clear picture of how offensive the person is, in order to assess the issue properly.

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nekonote  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 15:50
Member (2009)
English to Japanese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I agree Jun 25, 2011

Nesrin wrote:

Even if you were civil enough not to write out/translate the offensive words he used in his email to you, I suggest you actually translate even the most offensive remarks he made in your support ticket. The general public doesn't need to know all the details, but I think the site staff should have a clear picture of how offensive the person is, in order to assess the issue properly.


I actually copied and pasted my correspondance in previous case, although I didn't translate. It's difficult to say, but it's mainly his way of speech; mocking, scoffing, and arrogant way. Insulting me in every possible way. Like a teenage (or less?) gangster... I reported this time confirming about that, and believe this person IS an abussive user and breaches most of the site rules.

I hope support team can deal with this "out-of-control" bloke. If not, I think I have to give up my membership (hope not...).


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xxxMariyaN  Identity Verified
United States
Japanese to Russian
+ ...
Dear nekonote, Jun 25, 2011

I think I know who is the person you are talking about, since we share two working pairs and the only time I have received an offensive comment and a harassing e-mail from other ProZ member was after I have posted my answer in J-ENG pair a few months ago. And yes, it was about his being a native English speaker, my not being good enough to understand anything in English or in Japanese and involving one very offensive advice regarding what I should actually do rather than translating. (And after I reported abuse, nothing happened. That person is still around there and keeps saying whatever he wants, and, apparently, the translators offended by him keep receiving notes from ProZ staff like "appropriate actions have been taken".)

I also think you did right when you reported that translator and I also think you should report him again if he continues with such behaviour. I do not think you should give up your membership because of such people being registered at ProZ - I think it's time for site staff to take serious measures towards such violators.
In my opinion, it starts looking like it has gone too far and reporting abuse does not seem to help at all. The person who was offended is considered to be "the third party" and is not allowed to know what action has been taken - basically, not knowing whether such action has ever took place.

I cannot agree entirely with Nesrin that "it's an open forum" and trolls and bullies "can be lurking around", although I understand her point. It's an open forum in the sense that we all can share our opinions, experience or advice, and that's what I really like about ProZ.
But "open" does not mean that everything is allowed; Internet is anonymous only to a certain extent and the fact that only registered users can answer and comment in KudoZ, as well as make forum postings should at least help to prevent violations from being repeated by taking appropriate measures against the violators. And by "appropriate" I mean measures that would really prevent offence and abuse from happening again - to make former violators understand that their behaviour is not going to be tolerated.


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gad
United States
Local time: 01:50
Member
French to English
I understand your frustration Jun 25, 2011

I've had to deal with rude people on KudoZ. Amazingly, many people think that not posting a perfect answer - or question, for that matter - is so much worse an offense than the kind of behavior like what you describe. But I disagree, I think that kind of conduct is childish and unacceptable.

Glad that you have reported this and hope that this gets resolved appropriately then. Sorry you had to deal with this. Posting on a site for professionals should not incite unprofessional behavior in return.


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 07:50
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Just ignore this person! Jun 25, 2011

Don't spend a second of your time writing to this person or even thinking about this. I had similar experiences in the past and, since these people are simply not reasonable and don't have good intentions, it's best to forget about them.

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Ali Bayraktar  Identity Verified
Turkey
Member (2007)
English to Turkish
+ ...
An advice... Jun 25, 2011

Just say him 'Please do not be so offensive. Being offensive is very bad thing.'

And that will be enough...


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Lingua 5B  Identity Verified
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 07:50
English to Croatian
+ ...
Totally agree. Jun 25, 2011

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Don't spend a second of your time writing to this person or even thinking about this. I had similar experiences in the past and, since these people are simply not reasonable and don't have good intentions, it's best to forget about them.


On the fora yes. These people feed on your reaction, they are sociopaths.


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nekonote  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 15:50
Member (2009)
English to Japanese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I appreciate your replies!! Jun 26, 2011

Thank you, MariyaN, gad,Tomás Cano Binder, M. Ali Bayraktar and Lingua 5B for your comments. I was quite surprised that there are actually many sociopaths in this site! I received an email from one user who has suffered (and maybe still suffering?) from a real stoker user.

I think I was too nice this time to write to this childish user to write an appreciate message. I thought he was better from how we ended the first correspondance. Seems not.

I will NEVER ever pay attention to him.

MariyaN, I knew someone has suffered from the same person!! Actually, I really think he's the one who doesn't know either language. From what I've heard so far, this "teenage gangster"-like person is a better case. If I get something again, I will of course report this person. I do repeat it until the site members take seriously about all those crazy users. He may be a native speaker of English, but maybe don't understand British English, for instance Just trying to be "cool" using "cheers, mate".

There are many rules we have to follow, and there's no penalty for those people who breaches rules and they allow those obnoxious people continue using this site. This is absurd. In any website and/or outside world, there are always penalties and consequences after breaching rules and bothering rational members. We're not even allowed to disclose such users name or list them in certain page. I should Proz should have such page at least, because there is no penalty for them. If we disclose their names for OUR sake? It will be us getting troubles. That's ridiculous.
The stoker I've heard about was even "P" member. The victim received phone calls and text messages (the stoker found this person's number in other site), and ended up bloking text messages from anyone.

Once again, I really appreciate your replies and nice comments. I will follow your advices.

best regards,
nekonote


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Rodion Shein  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 09:50
Member
English to Russian
+ ...
Zero Tolerance Jun 26, 2011

Hi nekonote,

I'd like to add some words to above comments of the colleagues.

Although it really makes sense to refrain from communicating with offensive users, it makes even more sense to call moderators in any cases of the kind.

I'm always for zero tolerance to boorishness, and believe that consistent rule enforcement is one of the reasons behind ProZ.com being a respectable professional site, while many other initially useful linguistic resources became Web trash dumps.

There should be no place in the professional community for those who cannot respect their colleagues!

Kind regards,
Rodion


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