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Proposed method to prevent Kudoz Abuse
Thread poster: Ali M. Alsaqqa

Ali M. Alsaqqa  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:21
English to Arabic
Dec 29, 2011

Hello,

So in brief, suppose someone is abusing Kudoz.

# What is the definition of "Abuse" here? Everyone uses her/his own definition!

We want to give this person a warning. Proz staff then prevent this person from using
Kudoz for 3 months.

How could we implement such warning system?

1) Everyone has the ability to visit everyone's profile, then clicking "report this person". When you click this button, you will be able to provide comments on why you are reporting this person. We are in the Kudoz context, of course.

2) "Effective Strength" Condition. Suppose the total of Kudoz points for all translators in some language pair is 50,000 points. Suppose ten translators reported this abuser, and the average Kudoz points for these translators is 4,000. This means that the "effective strength" of those ten translators is 40,000/50,000 * 100 = 80%. I propose the minimum value of "Effective Strength" to be 75%. Just a proposal.

3) "Effective Number" Condition. This number is dynamic: it equals total number of Kudoz points in that language pair / average Kudoz points. If there are 150,000 Kudoz points and the average per translator is 5,000 points then there must be at least 150,000/5,000 = 30 persons reporting the abuser. The Effective Number must not be less than 10. If the Effective Number is more than 30 then it is reduced to 30. EDIT: I prefer requiring the group of translators reporting the abuser not being from only one country. They should be geographically distributed, to some degree.

5) Conditions (2) AND (3) are independent and must both be satisfied.

6) The moderators of that language pair then discuss the issue with the translators who reported the abuser, and if the moderators were convinced, then the "warn" is effective, and the abuser is not able to use Kudoz for the next three months.

7) Only the abuser, the stuff and the reporting translators will know that this person received a warn.

8) No one knows each other in this system. Everyone reports the abuser secretly. You cannot know who else is reporting the same abuser, so you must just wait until the two conditions above are met. The abuser also does not know who reported him.

9) You cannot "report" more than two times per year. This is a total, regardless of the language pair. (One "report" per language pair per year, maximally. )

This is just a suggestion, it may be totally irrelevant, ridiculous, unfair(?) or perhaps useful.

Regards,
Ali

[Edited at 2011-12-29 21:53 GMT]typo changed

[Edited at 2011-12-30 13:36 GMT]


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Daniela Zambrini  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 03:21
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
existing rules, enforcement, moderators, support, etc... Dec 29, 2011

Dear Ali,

site rules and KudoZ-specific rules exist and can be accessed at any time at the following link http://www.proz.com/rules/

As quoted on the above mentioned page, ProZ.com rules have been created to extend and protect the pleasant, results-oriented atmosphere of the ProZ.com translation workplace. By using the site, users and members indicate acceptance of, and agreement to abide by, these rules.

Ali wrote:
# What is the definition of "Abuse" here?


In my opinion, abuse means using site features in a way which is not compliant with site rules. If you witness any form of abuse or rules violation, report it to moderators, or site staff, if no moderator is available.


Further information on moderator activities and rules enforcement can be found at the bottom of the above mentioned page, or in the FAQ section http://www.proz.com/faq/community.html#proz_com_moderators or in the section dedicated to Moderators http://www.proz.com/?sp=moderators

Happy KudoZ, Happy Holidays and Happy New Year
Ciao
Daniela


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Daniel Grau  Identity Verified
Argentina
English to Spanish
They can open a new account Dec 30, 2011

In my experience, uncivil KudoZ askers (no thanks, no glossary entries, no closing of questions, no points awarded, no information in their profiles, often a blatant ignorance of the subject matter being translated) are always non-paying members.

Once they reach the limit of questions allowed, their asking privileges are revoked, so they just open another free account, thus effectively casting aside any hand slapping you care to throw in their way.


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János Untener  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 03:21
Member (2010)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
no Dec 30, 2011

too complicated

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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:21
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Personal, direct action! Dec 30, 2011

After over a decade in Proz.com, I have seen very many proposals about how to tackle Kudoz abusers. I even have made some proposals myself over the years.

In my opinion, in our world we are too keen on having others or a higher authority enforce the things we would like to see done or enforced, instead of us taking personal action to solve a problem or to minimise its consequences. The sheer excess of rules, laws, and regulations in the civilised world is reaching absurd proportions.

Personally I dislike Kudoz abuse as much as the next person, but have learnt to do my bit against abusers: I simply filter them with a couple of clicks and completely cease to see their questions altogether. Not a second of my time goes to them.

And do not forget that the vice in Kudoz abusers has its punishment in itself: they are usually the guys who find it very hard to get jobs unless they use a ridiculously low rate, since no sensible customer gives important (and high-pay) jobs to someone who has to ask 1,000 questions every year. Kudoz abusers are hungry people and I am sorry for them!

(PS: I do not agree with your proposal, of course.)


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 18:21
English to German
+ ...
Forget about those rules. Where are the moderators? Dec 30, 2011

When I started out here on ProZ.com more than half a decade ago, it was the moderators who showed me the ropes. I overstepped a line? They would pull my ear in public. I managed to provide some extraordinary help? I got praise. I posted my question in a slightly wrong field? They would always suggest a more specified field to help me get more readers. That's how I learned my stuff.

Where have all the great moderators gone who took their job seriously?


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Laurent KRAULAND  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 03:21
French to German
+ ...
Agreeing Dec 30, 2011

with Tomás and Nicole.

In other words: we should manage ourselves and have some more direct input from moderators.


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Tina Colquhoun  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:21
Danish to English
+ ...
Logic dictates... Dec 30, 2011

...that there must be some equally 'hungry' and desperate Kudoz answerers out there spending a disproportionate amount of time giving these abusers what they want - or they wouldn't bother asking all those questions in the first place...

Tina


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xxxjacana54  Identity Verified
Uruguay
English to Spanish
+ ...
Exactly Dec 30, 2011

Tina Colquhoun wrote:


...that there must be some equally 'hungry' and desperate Kudoz answerers out there spending a disproportionate amount of time giving these abusers what they want - or they wouldn't bother asking all those questions in the first place...

Tina


Best wishes to all.




Edited to add:

I understand your frustration Ali, and I value the time and effort you have taken to come up with this suggestion, but I think it's a lost cause.

What I do is "flag" (filter in) a few colleagues whom I would like to help, if I can, and this means that I receive their questions in an email. Other than that, I will look at the complete list (no, in fact, the list of questions in my working fields) when I decide to linger over a cup of coffee... this means that some days I look at them and some days I don't. But I have learnt that taking the Kudoz too much to heart can make me annoyed, so I prefer to take it easy and simply enjoy the learning experience and the exchange of opinions with colleagues. If one day I decide that there are more cons than pros to the site I will simply leave it, like I left Facebook.

[Edited at 2011-12-30 10:22 GMT]


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Evonymus (Ewa Kazmierczak)  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 03:21
English to Polish
+ ...
. Dec 30, 2011

Nicole Schnell wrote:

When I started out here on ProZ.com more than half a decade ago, it was the moderators who showed me the ropes. I overstepped a line? They would pull my ear in public. I managed to provide some extraordinary help? I got praise. I posted my question in a slightly wrong field? They would always suggest a more specified field to help me get more readers. That's how I learned my stuff.

Where have all the great moderators gone who took their job seriously?


E x a c t l y!

Daniela Zambrini wrote:
site rules and KudoZ-specific rules exist and can be accessed at any time at the following link http://www.proz.com/rules/
As quoted on the above mentioned page, ProZ.com rules have been created to extend and protect the pleasant, results-oriented atmosphere of the ProZ.com translation workplace. By using the site, users and members indicate acceptance of, and agreement to abide by, these rules.
Daniela


But they (site rules) do not work.


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Ali M. Alsaqqa  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:21
English to Arabic
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for your input Dec 30, 2011

@Daniela: I was only trying to suggest a solution, I did not mean to ignore site/forum rules. Sorry about that.

My colleagues:
Thank you also for your comments, although I would be more happy seeing an abuser being prevented from posting for three months. After all, we are not harming him too much, it is just a more severe form for saying "stop it!".

Thanks again.

[Edited at 2011-12-30 13:49 GMT]


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Charlie Bavington  Identity Verified
Local time: 02:21
French to English
Unfortunately, it's not enough Dec 30, 2011

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

In my opinion, in our world we are too keen on having others or a higher authority enforce the things we would like to see done or enforced, instead of us taking personal action to solve a problem or to minimise its consequences. The sheer excess of rules, laws, and regulations in the civilised world is reaching absurd proportions.

Personally I dislike Kudoz abuse as much as the next person, but have learnt to do my bit against abusers: I simply filter them with a couple of clicks and completely cease to see their questions altogether. Not a second of my time goes to them.


The point is that this kind of behaviour is not without adverse effects on other people, and neither does filtering remove those adverse effects on other people, i.e. the rest of us poor suckers.

See ongoing discussion here http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/214906-kudoz_abuse.html

(not the first, and probably not the last, but this week's one!)


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 19:21
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Re: moderators Dec 30, 2011

Nicole Schnell wrote:

When I started out here on ProZ.com more than half a decade ago, it was the moderators who showed me the ropes. I overstepped a line? They would pull my ear in public. I managed to provide some extraordinary help? I got praise. I posted my question in a slightly wrong field? They would always suggest a more specified field to help me get more readers. That's how I learned my stuff.

Where have all the great moderators gone who took their job seriously?


My thoughts exactly. I suspect that Proz has made all kinds of rules for the moderators as well, so that the job has completely lost its 'teeth'.


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Marina Steinbach  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:21
Member
English to German
+ ...
It cannot be abuse. Dec 30, 2011

Otherwise the moderator would take measures against this behavior, or not?

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Noni Gilbert
Spain
Local time: 03:21
Member (2007)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Time and effort Dec 30, 2011

I would like to add my voice to that of Lucía's in thanking Ali for the amount of time and effort put into formulating his proposal. I'm a filter fan myself, but that doesn't mean I don't recognise someone who is devoting time to sth which he hopes will be of benefit to us all.

Happy 2012 one and all, btw!

Noni


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