Pages in topic:   [1 2 3] >
Confidence Level = 5
Thread poster: DLyons

DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 13:25
Spanish to English
+ ...
Aug 20, 2012

Sheila's recommendation to "Start the week with a rant!" spurred me into action on something that's been in the back of my mind for a while.

My purely subjective impression is that answers with "Confidence Level = 5" are more likely to be inaccurate or just plain wrong than e.g. answers with "Confidence Level = 4" or even lower. Does anyone else feel the same?

Some come from people who apparently have quite limited abilities in the target language.

I have no idea how many 5's I've posted myself, but imagine they are on the fingers of one hand - and I hope that I checked the Scriptures, Irish Constitution as well as my passport, driver's license and a utility bill first! And if I didn't, then I deserve all the slagging I'll undoubtedly get


P.S. I only joined this group because it seemed the relevant place to post my rant. Now I see there's already a thread on it!

[Edited at 2012-08-20 11:18 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Marketing gimmick Aug 20, 2012

Habitual use of CL 5 is a marketing gimmick used by a variety of people, unfortunately including a select few who have NO clue at all about target and/or source language. One habitual CL 5 poster in a couple of my language pairs simply copies/pastes from Google translate and the (sole) explanation is nearly always 'imho'. And 99% of the time, the answer is simply wrong or completely off the walls.
As insensitive as this particular individual may be to language in general, disagrees do not go unnoticed. Those who post a disagree are likely to be met by gibberish-like insults and those who post sharp disagrees and/or replies to the insults get reported to the SiteStaff who then remove the peer comments. It's exasperating but there is clearly nothing anyone can do to stop such people.
My advice: always take CL5 with a grain of salt. Most of us know that 100% certainly hardly ever exists.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:25
Hebrew to English
CL5 is overused, but using it isn't a crime if done judiciously Aug 20, 2012

Personally, I don't see CL5 as a 100% certainty. When I use it I see it as "whilst I agree there are a myriad of other possible translations for this term, I thoroughly believe this is the best option for this specific context and I don't believe anyone will come up with anything more appropriate or fitting".

However, I do try to use CL5 judiciously.

I do agree with writeaway that there are some right cases out there posting absolute nonsense with CL5 and this is just the consequence of being an open portal, it attracts all sorts.

There are also those cases (there was one recently on a related thread to this) who simply overuse CL5 because they have an overinflated opinion of their own superiority and/or their abilities.

I think in any KudoZ pairing you quickly ascertain who can be trusted when it comes to using the confidence scale wisely.


Direct link Reply with quote
 
polyglot45
English to French
+ ...
sometimes, however, one does know but... Aug 20, 2012

even when I'm dead certain, I tend not to put 5. The reason is simple: I have noticed that, for some, 5 is a red rag to a bull. They will always try to shoot you down in flames, even if it means diverting the asker towards an incorrect solution.
If the rating system were applied properly, then 5 would indeed mean "I am sure" and could be used to show just that. Sadly it is like "disagree", even if you try to use it for its intended purpose, all you seem to do is stir up hatred and anger.
Perhaps the idea of confidence levels should be dropped for all the good it does....


Direct link Reply with quote
 

ATIL KAYHAN  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 15:25
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
Confidence Level Thread Aug 20, 2012

You may or may not have noticed but there is already a thread on confidence level that has been going on for a while.

http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/21370-the_confidence_level_in_kudoz_answers.html

By the way, I call people who give a confidence level of five people who can walk on water. Unfortunately, I witness so many of them. It is an example of shortsightedness.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:25
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
A.I. Aug 20, 2012

DLyons wrote:
Sheila's recommendation to "Start the week with a rant!" spurred me into action on something that's been in the back of my mind for a while

Welcome to "rant for your health"

My purely subjective impression is that answers with "Confidence Level = 5" are more likely to be inaccurate or just plain wrong than e.g. answers with "Confidence Level = 4" or even lower. Does anyone else feel the same?

Some come from people who apparently have quite limited abilities in the target language.

It certainly does seem that there's a marked correlation, yes. I blame it on that most annoying of personality traits: arrogant ignorance


Direct link Reply with quote
 

writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Or........... Aug 20, 2012

Sheila Wilson wrote:

It certainly does seem that there's a marked correlation, yes. I blame it on that most annoying of personality traits: arrogant ignorance



Ignorant arrogance



Direct link Reply with quote
 
mimi 254
Local time: 13:25
French to English
+ ...
Superiority/Arrogance Aug 20, 2012

Ty Kendall wrote:


There are also those cases (there was one recently on a related thread to this) who simply overuse CL5 because they have an overinflated opinion of their own superiority and/or their abilities.



Agree that many use the CL 5 to prove/show their "superiority"

[Edited at 2012-08-20 12:30 GMT]


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 13:25
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
AI or IA? No contest! Aug 20, 2012

writeaway wrote:
Sheila Wilson wrote:
It certainly does seem that there's a marked correlation, yes. I blame it on that most annoying of personality traits: arrogant ignorance

[or] Ignorant arrogance

You probably don't remember, writeaway, but in July 2007, you sent me a private email regarding a CL5 I had submitted. At that time I was totally ignorant about the use of KudoZ, and my arrogance was born of that. I took note of that gentle slap on the wrist (and it was gentle) and very rarely use CL5 now, i.e. I didn't persist in being arrogant once the innocence had gone.

In fact, I don't believe I ever use it now for anything other than a monolingual English question where the asker wants something pretty black & white. Some grammar points can be that way, but there are almost always a number of ways of translating ideas between two languages.

I like these quotes from a discussion here http://answerit.news24.com/Question/Which%20one%20is%20worse?%20Ignorant%20arrogance%20or%20arrogant%20ignorance?/5490
Arrogant ignorance hands down! People who are ignorant are daft in my eyes, so you can't blame someone for not being that bright, but when someone blatantly and egotistically remains ignorant, it makes my blood boil.

Arrogant Ignorance no question.It's like being 'proud to be stupid'


Direct link Reply with quote
 
urbom
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:25
German to English
+ ...
For some insight into the phenomenon... Aug 20, 2012

... try searching online for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect


Direct link Reply with quote
 

writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
To me, CL5 means this answer and no other Aug 20, 2012

Sheila Wilson wrote:

writeaway wrote:
Sheila Wilson wrote:
It certainly does seem that there's a marked correlation, yes. I blame it on that most annoying of personality traits: arrogant ignorance

[or] Ignorant arrogance

You probably don't remember, writeaway, but in July 2007, you sent me a private email regarding a CL5 I had submitted. At that time I was totally ignorant about the use of KudoZ, and my arrogance was born of that. I took note of that gentle slap on the wrist (and it was gentle) and very rarely use CL5 now, i.e. I didn't persist in being arrogant once the innocence had gone.

In fact, I don't believe I ever use it now for anything other than a monolingual English question where the asker wants something pretty black & white. Some grammar points can be that way, but there are almost always a number of ways of translating ideas between two languages.

I like these quotes from a discussion here http://answerit.news24.com/Question/Which%20one%20is%20worse?%20Ignorant%20arrogance%20or%20arrogant%20ignorance?/5490
Arrogant ignorance hands down! People who are ignorant are daft in my eyes, so you can't blame someone for not being that bright, but when someone blatantly and egotistically remains ignorant, it makes my blood boil.

Arrogant Ignorance no question.It's like being 'proud to be stupid'



Hi Sheila,
No, don't remember sending any note-was it when you had just joined? Anyway, when I answered Kudoz questions, I used a '4' when I was basically 100% sure I was right, but didn't want to indicate that 'only' my answer would do. Normally I used 3 and if I was really unsure but thought it was worth a try to answer, I'd state that clearly and post a 2. For me a 1 indicates a sheer guess.
Imo, 5CL is really for experts in the field who truly know 100% that their answer is the right one.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:25
Hebrew to English
Maybe we should also be asking... Aug 20, 2012

In addition to asking ourselves about the overuse of CL5, maybe we should also be asking why there is such fear and distrust of using CL1 and CL2.

Direct link Reply with quote
 

Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:25
Hebrew to English
Scale Aug 20, 2012

Maybe there should also be more definitive clarification from ProZ about the meaning of the scale too.

CL1 - Complete guess
CL2 - Educated guess
CL3 - I think this is the answer and have some evidence to back it up.
CL4 - I'm quite secure in this answer and have a lot of evidence to back it up.
CL5 - There is no other better alternative than this answer (even if alternatives exist) and I have a preponderance of evidence to substantiate and justify this confidence.

The above is just an example, loosely based on how I view the scale.


Direct link Reply with quote
 

DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 13:25
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Re using CL1 Aug 20, 2012

Ty Kendall wrote:

In addition to asking ourselves about the overuse of CL5, maybe we should also be asking why there is such fear and distrust of using CL1 and CL2.


I very occasionally use it when the question has been sitting around for a while unaddressed and is of such a nature that it seems likely to stay that way.

If I have any idea that might point the asker in a possibly fruitful direction, then I'll post it.
But more often I'll just post a discussion entry (and I've no idea what criterion leads me to choose one rather than the other).


Direct link Reply with quote
 

ATIL KAYHAN  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 15:25
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
I Agree Aug 20, 2012

I also agree that there should be more clarification and guidance from ProZ about the meaning of the scale. Currently, no such thing exists. This may be the reason for the confusion regarding the use of the scale. ProZ.com?

Direct link Reply with quote
 
Pages in topic:   [1 2 3] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Confidence Level = 5

Advanced search






Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »
memoQ translator pro
Kilgray's memoQ is the world's fastest developing integrated localization & translation environment rendering you more productive and efficient.

With our advanced file filters, unlimited language and advanced file support, memoQ translator pro has been designed for translators and reviewers who work on their own, with other translators or in team-based translation projects.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search