| Pages in topic: [1 2 3] > | Confidence Level = 5 Thread poster: DLyons
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DLyons 
Ireland
Local time: 09:25
Spanish to English
+ ...
Sheila's recommendation to "Start the week with a rant!" spurred me into action on something that's been in the back of my mind for a while.
My purely subjective impression is that answers with "Confidence Level = 5" are more likely to be inaccurate or just plain wrong than e.g. answers with "Confidence Level = 4" or even lower. Does anyone else feel the same?
Some come from people who apparently have quite limited abilities in the target language.
I have ... See more Sheila's recommendation to "Start the week with a rant!" spurred me into action on something that's been in the back of my mind for a while.
My purely subjective impression is that answers with "Confidence Level = 5" are more likely to be inaccurate or just plain wrong than e.g. answers with "Confidence Level = 4" or even lower. Does anyone else feel the same?
Some come from people who apparently have quite limited abilities in the target language.
I have no idea how many 5's I've posted myself, but imagine they are on the fingers of one hand - and I hope that I checked the Scriptures, Irish Constitution as well as my passport, driver's license and a utility bill first! And if I didn't, then I deserve all the slagging I'll undoubtedly get
P.S. I only joined this group because it seemed the relevant place to post my rant. Now I see there's already a thread on it!
[Edited at 2012-08-20 11:18 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Marketing gimmick | Aug 20, 2012 |
Habitual use of CL 5 is a marketing gimmick used by a variety of people, unfortunately including a select few who have NO clue at all about target and/or source language. One habitual CL 5 poster in a couple of my language pairs simply copies/pastes from Google translate and the (sole) explanation is nearly always 'imho'. And 99% of the time, the answer is simply wrong or completely off the walls.
As insensitive as this particular individual may be to language in general, disagrees do not... See more Habitual use of CL 5 is a marketing gimmick used by a variety of people, unfortunately including a select few who have NO clue at all about target and/or source language. One habitual CL 5 poster in a couple of my language pairs simply copies/pastes from Google translate and the (sole) explanation is nearly always 'imho'. And 99% of the time, the answer is simply wrong or completely off the walls.
As insensitive as this particular individual may be to language in general, disagrees do not go unnoticed. Those who post a disagree are likely to be met by gibberish-like insults and those who post sharp disagrees and/or replies to the insults get reported to the SiteStaff who then remove the peer comments. It's exasperating but there is clearly nothing anyone can do to stop such people.
My advice: always take CL5 with a grain of salt. Most of us know that 100% certainly hardly ever exists. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:25
Hebrew to English
| CL5 is overused, but using it isn't a crime if done judiciously | Aug 20, 2012 |
Personally, I don't see CL5 as a 100% certainty. When I use it I see it as "whilst I agree there are a myriad of other possible translations for this term, I thoroughly believe this is the best option for this specific context and I don't believe anyone will come up with anything more appropriate or fitting".
However, I do try to use CL5 judiciously.
I do agree with writeaway that there are some right cases out there posting absolute nonsense with CL5 and this is just ... See more Personally, I don't see CL5 as a 100% certainty. When I use it I see it as "whilst I agree there are a myriad of other possible translations for this term, I thoroughly believe this is the best option for this specific context and I don't believe anyone will come up with anything more appropriate or fitting".
However, I do try to use CL5 judiciously.
I do agree with writeaway that there are some right cases out there posting absolute nonsense with CL5 and this is just the consequence of being an open portal, it attracts all sorts.
There are also those cases (there was one recently on a related thread to this) who simply overuse CL5 because they have an overinflated opinion of their own superiority and/or their abilities.
I think in any KudoZ pairing you quickly ascertain who can be trusted when it comes to using the confidence scale wisely. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | sometimes, however, one does know but... | Aug 20, 2012 |
even when I'm dead certain, I tend not to put 5. The reason is simple: I have noticed that, for some, 5 is a red rag to a bull. They will always try to shoot you down in flames, even if it means diverting the asker towards an incorrect solution.
If the rating system were applied properly, then 5 would indeed mean "I am sure" and could be used to show just that. Sadly it is like "disagree", even if you try to use it for its intended purpose, all you seem to do is stir up hatred and anger.... See more even when I'm dead certain, I tend not to put 5. The reason is simple: I have noticed that, for some, 5 is a red rag to a bull. They will always try to shoot you down in flames, even if it means diverting the asker towards an incorrect solution.
If the rating system were applied properly, then 5 would indeed mean "I am sure" and could be used to show just that. Sadly it is like "disagree", even if you try to use it for its intended purpose, all you seem to do is stir up hatred and anger.
Perhaps the idea of confidence levels should be dropped for all the good it does.... ▲ Collapse
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ATIL KAYHAN
Türkiye
Local time: 11:25
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
| Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 09:25
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
DLyons wrote:
Sheila's recommendation to "Start the week with a rant!" spurred me into action on something that's been in the back of my mind for a while
Welcome to "rant for your health"
My purely subjective impression is that answers with "Confidence Level = 5" are more likely to be inaccurate or just plain wrong than e.g. answers with "Confidence Level = 4" or even lower. Does anyone else feel the same?
Some come from people who apparently have quite limited abilities in the target language.
It certainly does seem that there's a marked correlation, yes. I blame it on that most annoying of personality traits: arrogant ignorance
| | | | | Or........... | Aug 20, 2012 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
It certainly does seem that there's a marked correlation, yes. I blame it on that most annoying of personality traits: arrogant ignorance
Ignorant arrogance
| | | | mimi 254
Local time: 09:25
French to English
+ ...
| Superiority/Arrogance | Aug 20, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
There are also those cases (there was one recently on a related thread to this) who simply overuse CL5 because they have an overinflated opinion of their own superiority and/or their abilities.
Agree that many use the CL 5 to prove/show their "superiority"
[Edited at 2012-08-20 12:30 GMT]
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Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 09:25
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| AI or IA? No contest! | Aug 20, 2012 |
writeaway wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
It certainly does seem that there's a marked correlation, yes. I blame it on that most annoying of personality traits: arrogant ignorance [or] Ignorant arrogance
You probably don't remember, writeaway, but in July 2007, you sent me a private email regarding a CL5 I had submitted. At that time I was totally ignorant about the use of KudoZ, and my arrogance was born of that. I took note of that gentle slap on the wrist (and it was gentle) and very rarely use CL5 now, i.e. I didn't persist in being arrogant once the innocence had gone.
In fact, I don't believe I ever use it now for anything other than a monolingual English question where the asker wants something pretty black & white. Some grammar points can be that way, but there are almost always a number of ways of translating ideas between two languages.
I like these quotes from a discussion here http://answerit.news24.com/Question/Which%20one%20is%20worse?%20Ignorant%20arrogance%20or%20arrogant%20ignorance?/5490
Arrogant ignorance hands down! People who are ignorant are daft in my eyes, so you can't blame someone for not being that bright, but when someone blatantly and egotistically remains ignorant, it makes my blood boil.
Arrogant Ignorance no question.It's like being 'proud to be stupid'
| | | | urbom
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:25
German to English
+ ...
| | To me, CL5 means this answer and no other | Aug 20, 2012 |
Sheila Wilson wrote: writeaway wrote: Sheila Wilson wrote:
It certainly does seem that there's a marked correlation, yes. I blame it on that most annoying of personality traits: arrogant ignorance [or] Ignorant arrogance You probably don't remember, writeaway, but in July 2007, you sent me a private email regarding a CL5 I had submitted. At that time I was totally ignorant about the use of KudoZ, and my arrogance was born of that. I took note of that gentle slap on the wrist (and it was gentle ) and very rarely use CL5 now, i.e. I didn't persist in being arrogant once the innocence had gone. In fact, I don't believe I ever use it now for anything other than a monolingual English question where the asker wants something pretty black & white. Some grammar points can be that way, but there are almost always a number of ways of translating ideas between two languages. I like these quotes from a discussion here http://answerit.news24.com/Question/Which%20one%20is%20worse?%20Ignorant%20arrogance%20or%20arrogant%20ignorance?/5490 Arrogant ignorance hands down! People who are ignorant are daft in my eyes, so you can't blame someone for not being that bright, but when someone blatantly and egotistically remains ignorant, it makes my blood boil. Arrogant Ignorance no question.It's like being 'proud to be stupid'
Hi Sheila,
No, don't remember sending any note-was it when you had just joined? Anyway, when I answered Kudoz questions, I used a '4' when I was basically 100% sure I was right, but didn't want to indicate that 'only' my answer would do. Normally I used 3 and if I was really unsure but thought it was worth a try to answer, I'd state that clearly and post a 2. For me a 1 indicates a sheer guess.
Imo, 5CL is really for experts in the field who truly know 100% that their answer is the right one.
| | | | Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:25
Hebrew to English
| Maybe we should also be asking... | Aug 20, 2012 |
In addition to asking ourselves about the overuse of CL5, maybe we should also be asking why there is such fear and distrust of using CL1 and CL2.
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Ty Kendall
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:25
Hebrew to English
Maybe there should also be more definitive clarification from ProZ about the meaning of the scale too.
CL1 - Complete guess
CL2 - Educated guess
CL3 - I think this is the answer and have some evidence to back it up.
CL4 - I'm quite secure in this answer and have a lot of evidence to back it up.
CL5 - There is no other better alternative than this answer (even if alternatives exist) and I have a preponderance of evidence to substantiate and justify this confid... See more Maybe there should also be more definitive clarification from ProZ about the meaning of the scale too.
CL1 - Complete guess
CL2 - Educated guess
CL3 - I think this is the answer and have some evidence to back it up.
CL4 - I'm quite secure in this answer and have a lot of evidence to back it up.
CL5 - There is no other better alternative than this answer (even if alternatives exist) and I have a preponderance of evidence to substantiate and justify this confidence.
The above is just an example, loosely based on how I view the scale. ▲ Collapse
| | | | DLyons
Ireland
Local time: 09:25
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Re using CL1 | Aug 20, 2012 |
Ty Kendall wrote:
In addition to asking ourselves about the overuse of CL5, maybe we should also be asking why there is such fear and distrust of using CL1 and CL2.
I very occasionally use it when the question has been sitting around for a while unaddressed and is of such a nature that it seems likely to stay that way.
If I have any idea that might point the asker in a possibly fruitful direction, then I'll post it.
But more often I'll just post a discussion entry (and I've no idea what criterion leads me to choose one rather than the other).
| | | | ATIL KAYHAN
Türkiye
Local time: 11:25
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
I also agree that there should be more clarification and guidance from ProZ about the meaning of the scale. Currently, no such thing exists. This may be the reason for the confusion regarding the use of the scale. ProZ.com?
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