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How are KudoZ Rules of Asking enforced?
Thread poster: Olga Cuzmanov

Olga Cuzmanov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:10
Member (2013)
English to Romanian
+ ...
Sep 8, 2013

I am new to ProZ and I am curious how are KudoZ rules of asking enforced? In particular I am referring to rule 2.1 on the Guidelines for "asking". Here is the language:

"2.1 (Guideline): "Help" KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help only after other resources have been exhausted. Resources available include the KudoZ archives (KudoZ > ProZ.com Term Search from the main menu), dictionaries, search engines, etc. If translations are found elsewhere and the decision to post a KudoZ question is made nevertheless, information found elsewhere should be included, along with an explanation of what further information is sought."

When it is obvious that someone is abusing this feature what are we supposed to do?

If you have any advise please let me know. Thank you, Olga

PS Also, I have a question for the translators who are offering their help. How is it different "helping" a lazy KudoZ user, or I should say "abuser" different from working for TermWiki who is paying an outrageous 0.01 cents per word (they call it "token") after translating 1000 or 5000 terms?


 

Chiara Deaglio
Local time: 01:10
English to Italian
+ ...
you are 100% right Sep 8, 2013

The rule you quoted is not enforced, as far as I am aware, and the KudoZ abusers are free to post whatever question they like, no matter how obvious or easy.

As regards the KudoZ points hunters, I bet that many of them decry the ridiculous pay offered by TermWiki for providing terminologic answers (0.01 per word), while being eager to work for free on KudoZ...


 

Olga Cuzmanov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:10
Member (2013)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
My bad Sep 8, 2013

I posted my question in the wrong forum, so now that I am in the right place I have been reading other posts and it appears to me that I am not alone in raising this issue.
The subject have been beaten to death (ProZ (punt intended) and Cons), but it appears that very few solutions are offered.

Here is a way to deter abusers: 3 strikes and you're blocked from KudoZ help feature, at least for a few weeks or months. ProZ members and non-members can vote on weather or not the term asked is one not included in the available resources (KudoZ archives, dictionaries, search engines, etc) making it difficult to translate. Also, the user asking the question should follow the rule "If translations are found elsewhere and the decision to post a KudoZ question is made nevertheless, information found elsewhere should be included, along with an explanation of what further information is sought." He/she should show us that some effort was put forth on their side.

Keep in mind that I am new here, so if this suggestion does not make any sense, I apologize for wasting your time.


 

philgoddard
United States
Member (2009)
German to English
+ ...
. Sep 8, 2013

Chiara is right - this rule is not enforced, though the rule that you're not allowed to question people's reasons for posting most certainly is. I've never seen a question hidden by a moderator on the grounds that the asker hasn't bothered to do any research.

The only solution is to hide persistent offenders using your dashboard, so that you don't see their questions in the first place.


 

Chiara Deaglio
Local time: 01:10
English to Italian
+ ...
Another solution Sep 8, 2013

philgoddard wrote:

Chiara is right - this rule is not enforced, though the rule that you're not allowed to question people's reasons for posting most certainly is. I've never seen a question hidden by a moderator on the grounds that the asker hasn't bothered to do any research.

The only solution is to hide persistent offenders using your dashboard, so that you don't see their questions in the first place.



There is perhaps another, less peaceful solution: to expose the Kudoz abusers by quoting the obvious references that they didn't bother to look at!


 

Daniela Zambrini  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 01:10
Member (2005)
English to Italian
+ ...
rules vs guidelines Sep 8, 2013

Hello Olga,

first of all welcome to ProZ.comicon_smile.gif

As I understand it item #2.1 is a guideline (as is #2.4), whereas the other items are listed as rules.
If you believe a rule has been broken you can contact a moderator via the link at the bottom of the KudoZ page or open a support request by contacting Site Staff. The appropriate actions will be taken.


Olga Cuzmanov wrote:

ProZ members and non-members can vote on weather or not the term asked is one not included in the available resources (KudoZ archives, dictionaries, search engines, etc) making it difficult to translate.


There already is a feature to vote for Pro or non-Pro in order to reclassify a question, but if you have less than 20 KudoZ point you cannot see it and you cannot vote. See http://www.proz.com/faq/2905#2905 and http://www.proz.com/faq/2764#2764

As philgoddard suggested, you may prefer to filter ceratin askers: by tweaking your KudoZ dashboard you may opt to decline notification of that member's questions (regardless of your notification settings.)

I hope this helps to clarify.

Ciao, Daniela


 

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:10
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
I still don't understand why they are developing TermWiki Sep 8, 2013

Chiara Deaglio wrote:

The rule you quoted is not enforced, as far as I am aware, and the KudoZ abusers are free to post whatever question they like, no matter how obvious or easy.

As regards the KudoZ points hunters, I bet that many of them decry the ridiculous pay offered by TermWiki for providing terminologic answers (0.01 per word), while being eager to work for free on KudoZ...


Are they trying to develop new dictionaries? If so, is it necessary?

I also don't understand why people are willing to work at $0.01 per term for it.


 

B D Finch  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 01:10
Member (2006)
French to English
+ ...
What a good question! Sep 8, 2013

As Phil says, the only enforcement seems to be against those who ask it!

I contribute to KudoZ mainly because I like the idea of a community of translators helping one another. I know that if I am working on a translation at 11 p.m. for delivery at 9 a.m. and get stuck on a term, there are people out there who may be able and willing to help. I might even find that someone has already asked a question that gives me the answer I need, either through the selected answer or through the discussion or a different answer to that selected. It is the explanations and discussions that make KudoZ better than a mere terminology bank. I also find answering questions to help other people and the discussions about terminology rewarding and more interesting than crossword puzzles (mind you, I never did graduate to cryptic crosswords).

However, some very good contributors have been excluded from the site for the crime of occasionally amusing themselves and others with witty comments aimed at KudoZ askers who ask very large numbers of very elementary questions and appear to lack basic research tools, skills, common sense and/or linguistic ability. Nonetheless, most of the people who frequent the site do still appear to be genuine and altruistic.

In case I suffer the same fate for posting this, it's been nice meeting you all (well most of you) on the site.icon_wink.gif


 

Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 18:10
German to English
Nothing can be done? Sep 8, 2013

I think there is another solution, but it would involve a discussion of the current rules and the role of KudoZ moderators, but, alas, that is prohibited.

[Edited at 2013-09-08 20:30 GMT]


 

Christel Zipfel  Identity Verified
Member (2004)
Italian to German
+ ...
The rules are there Sep 8, 2013

But you can really ask whatever question you want, even if the same term has been asked 20 times before and has 20 glossary entries, or you can find it in every dictionary or with 1 click in Google. You are supposed to check at least the glossary terms before you post a question but nobody does, apparently. There will still be enough people willing to help you out, be it only to earn some KudoZ points, so it doesn't really matter.

 

Olga Cuzmanov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 17:10
Member (2013)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you! Sep 8, 2013

Chiara, philgoddard and BD Finch! What I hear is that NOTHING will change around here with regard to this issue I (and many other posters) brought up .

Daniela, thank you for taking the time to comment/respond to my question. However, I believe that ProZ administration can do more about this problem. Unfortunately, ProZ does not seem to believe that this IS a problem. So, it feels like I am wasting my time. There are more important things I should do with my time...Like maybe answering some silly questions and get KudoZ points, since those points are THE WAY to get higher ranking on ProZ listings.

As I understand it item #2.1 is a guideline (as is #2.4), whereas the other items are listed as rules


It may be correct, but then I think that he lines between "Rules" and "Guidelines"are being blurred by mixing them up under same header and using "should" instead of "shall" or "must" in items other than 2.1 and 2.4, thus my interpretation that all items would be enforceable. See for example 2.2 "Texts posted for translation via KudoZ should be limited to approximately ten (10) words. For longer texts, it is recommended that the directory or job posting system be used to locate an appropriate professional. See a more detailed description here."

Have a nice day. Olga


 

DS Trans  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 19:10
French to English
+ ...
Incentive for Kudoz Sep 9, 2013

Perhaps the Kudoz incentive should be minimized to reduce these problems? From what I understand, the number of Kudoz points determines one's ranking on a translator search. That seems huge, especially for a new user such as myself. It also seems to me that Kudoz points will have some bearing on the decision of agencies regarding which translator to hire for a project, especially with more competitive pairings. Anyway, it's a strong incentive for new users to try to accumulate some points rather quickly.

I recently responded to a question relating to a field of specialization in which I have much education and professional experience. The chosen response was one that I had not heard of, and was not chosen by someone with education or work experience in the field (as far as I could tell). It could be a difference in terminology from British/American English, but maybe not. Is there so much deliberation on the responses that they are set in stone from that time on, or can a phrase or term be revisited in the future if one has doubts about the accuracy of the glossary? In addition, translation is not a question of x in this language means y that language. If it was, Google Translations would be much better! There are often a multitude of ways to translate a word or phrase, and the best translation may be subjective and vary significantly according to context, audience and subject matter.

As for reclassification of Pro to not Pro - my question is whether the response (the number) remains recorded on one's profile? This would not seem correct in my opinion, since a high number of responses/chosen responses does not give a great impression to potential clients. This is also a concern of mine in regards to questions in which no response is chosen.

Thank you in advance for tolerating this long post and your patience if I have asked anything that seems obvious to a long-term user. (Pleased to meet all of you! Denise)


[Edited at 2013-09-09 00:58 GMT]


 
Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: duplicate post

Rolf Keller
Germany
Local time: 01:10
English to German
Additional questions Sep 9, 2013

Olga Cuzmanov wrote:

I am curious how are KudoZ rules of asking enforced? In particular I am referring to rule 2.1 on the Guidelines for "asking".


Welcome to reality. And please let me add one related question:

What about people who adorn their profile with "XYZ endorses ProZ.com's Professional Guidelines" but offend obviously against these guidelines? E. g.
against "represent their (...) capabilities (...) honestly" and
against "accept only assignments that they have the knowledge (...) to do well".

"When it is obvious that someone is abusing this feature what are we supposed to do?"


We are supposed not to criticize people who claim that they are translators.


 

JaneD  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 01:10
Member (2009)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Problems with KudoZ? Delete the email, filter the asker and move on Sep 9, 2013

The above is the only way to deal with this issue. The rules/guidelines are not about to change, and the only thing you can do as a professional when someone tries to take advantage like this is to ignore it.

There is, however, a very handy feature that means you can filter askers who do this repeatedly, so you simply aren't bothered by their questions.


 
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