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Taking "Disagrees" Personally
Thread poster: Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah

George Hopkins
Local time: 04:57
Swedish to English
What or who? Mar 18, 2014

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to put a fair question, to offer a fair answer, or seek a sea of troubles by questioning the intentions or sanity of the answerer, or indeed the asker...

What? -- is important.
Who? -- is not.


 

Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 21:57
German to English
Disagree drive Mar 18, 2014

We had a long discussion about this eight years ago. Most pros were strongly in favor of telling it like it is.

http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/52678-the_disagree_drive_aka_weeding_out_the_rubbish.html


 

Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 03:57
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
A perfect reason for being wary Mar 18, 2014

I'm sure it's bad form to quote from another thread, but in this case it's so apt that I'm going to anyway.

You just started another KudoZ-related thread, Samuel (the OP here), called http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/266191-dont_have_a_cow_or_should_we_be_uptight_about_answering_kudoz_questions.html and in your opening post
Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah wrote:
Ok, a monkey wrench is always going to be a monkey wrench

Well, all I can say is "Disagree!". For the last 58 years I've been calling that particular tool an adjustable spanner. I know Americans call it a monkey wrench, but I'm British. Of course, one should never say anything here without first checking facts. I found that the UK term is supposed to be "gas grips". What? I lived for 38 years in the UK and I never once even came across that term, let alone used it myself!

So, when is a monkey wrench NOT a monkey wrench? When it's an adjustable spanner; adjustable wrench; gas grips...

That's an example of where something you believe to be true is not untrue but may only be part of the truth. It's wise to remember that others here may see things from an entirely different perspective, so it's best to be wary around KudoZ. Personally, I've learnt the hard way (both on-line and through PMs) that it's better to moderate your response.


 

Mireille BOULANGER  Identity Verified
France
Member (2013)
English to French
I like the "utter crap"....too Mar 18, 2014

I had a quick look at this question and answer during my lunch break and yes I agree with Sheila, "Neutral" is a mild approach...The thing which puzzles me with Kudoz is when people ask questions and never give a final answer..Even when this is a not for points question, I feel very frustrated no to get any final response..What about you ?

 

DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 03:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
The only way to find out is to try it. Mar 18, 2014

Texte Style wrote:

I vote for Utter Crap. Just love the idea of having it.

Would using it bring the wrath of St Jerome down on us?



I thought the Vulgate translation was Utter Crap.

Now, I'm going to hide under the sofa.


 

Kay Denney  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 04:57
Member (2018)
French to English
kids and goats! Mar 18, 2014

Tom in London wrote:

I feel your pain.

In my case, what really gets my goat is when after a long to-and-fro of answering, nitpicking, and so on, the askers chooses what is clearly THE WRONG ANSWER !!


Tom you clearly have an obsession, this is the second thread I've read today where you're bleating

(I do sympathise though and it's a reason I rarely ever bother with Kudoz)


 

Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
So, maybe not the best example Mar 18, 2014

Sheila Wilson wrote:

I'm sure it's bad form to quote from another thread, but in this case it's so apt that I'm going to anyway.

You just started another KudoZ-related thread, Samuel (the OP here), called http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/266191-dont_have_a_cow_or_should_we_be_uptight_about_answering_kudoz_questions.html and in your opening post
Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah wrote:
Ok, a monkey wrench is always going to be a monkey wrench

Well, all I can say is "Disagree!". For the last 58 years I've been calling that particular tool an adjustable spanner. I know Americans call it a monkey wrench, but I'm British. Of course, one should never say anything here without first checking facts. I found that the UK term is supposed to be "gas grips". What? I lived for 38 years in the UK and I never once even came across that term, let alone used it myself!

So, when is a monkey wrench NOT a monkey wrench? When it's an adjustable spanner; adjustable wrench; gas grips...

That's an example of where something you believe to be true is not untrue but may only be part of the truth. It's wise to remember that others here may see things from an entirely different perspective, so it's best to be wary around KudoZ. Personally, I've learnt the hard way (both on-line and through PMs) that it's better to moderate your response.


I must admit I had never heard of a gas grip used as a monkey wrench or an adjustable spanner.... But that is far from the point I was making.

I'm actually British and I was just trying to make a point, maybe a better term would have been a gasket or trousers or socks... Not at all the point I was trying to make and obviously not what I was going for. In any case, I will still argue the same:

One thing is that a word has three or four possible, provable, technical translations in a non literary text, and another very different one is that a sentence or a term can be brought to another language in many many ways... And that putting things out in the open for all to see and evaluate is the best way to reach a consensus and come up with a great idea.

You never see these diatribes over on the technical KudoZ questions... it is always on the more creative texts.


 

Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
ah, newbie here... sorry Mar 18, 2014

Kim Metzger wrote:

We had a long discussion about this eight years ago. Most pros were strongly in favor of telling it like it is.

http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/52678-the_disagree_drive_aka_weeding_out_the_rubbish.html


Sorry to stir it all up again then


 

Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I ran out of goats Mar 18, 2014

Tom in London wrote:

I feel your pain.

In my case, what really gets my goat is when after a long to-and-fro of answering, nitpicking, and so on, the askers chooses what is clearly THE WRONG ANSWER !!


Yes... I have only been here a month and I already lost my flock.


 

Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Lost Mar 18, 2014

Samuel Murray wrote:

Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah wrote:
I have had a couple of cases now where I don't agree with a translation and I say so on KudoZ... But then people get bent out of shape about it.


It is not because you disagree with them that they get upset, but because you deliberately and knowingly voted that they be penalised for having given an answer.

(...)

Why do I say this? Because if you select the "disagree" option, it does not merely act as a useful label of your response, but it actually penalises the answerer in a hurtful way.

Owing to this unfortunate bad design of the KudoZ system, you should only use the "disagree" option if you agree that the answerer should be penalised for his answer. Otherwise you should use the "neutral" option, and then write the actual word "disagree" in your reply.

Think not of what you're doing, but of what the immediate consequences are of what you're doing.


Sorry, lost here... How exactly do you get penalized? I haven't found anything about that in the KudoZ FAQ... Am I missing something here?


 

DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 03:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
Diatribes are widespread :-( Mar 18, 2014

Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah wrote:

You never see these diatribes over on the technical KudoZ questions... it is always on the more creative texts.


Not entirely true unfortunately. Sample Pharmaceuticals, Genetics and related areas for Scientific Dogmatism.

[Edited at 2014-03-18 16:49 GMT]


 

Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:57
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Baaaaaah Mar 18, 2014

Texte Style wrote:

Tom you clearly have an obsession, this is the second thread I've read today where you're bleating



It comes in waves. I need to get it out of my system


 

Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I don't dabble Mar 18, 2014

DLyons wrote:

Samuel Sebastian Holden Bramah wrote:

You never see these diatribes over on the technical KudoZ questions... it is always on the more creative texts.


Not entirely true unfortunately. Sample Pharmaceuticals, Genetics and related areas for Scientific Dogmatism.

[Edited at 2014-03-18 16:49 GMT]


Ah... never been there... sorry


 

Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:57
Member (2000)
Russian to English
+ ...
In memoriam
Penalizing the answerer Mar 19, 2014

The answerer could be said to be "penalized" because a disagree counts as a minus in the total of agrees/disagrees to the question, so if the asker with whom you disagree had, say, three agrees before your disagree, after it he/she will only have two.

 

neilmac  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 04:57
Spanish to English
+ ...
Hear hear! Mar 19, 2014

DLyons wrote:

If there was a fourth option along the lines of "Utter Crap" then to merely "disagree" would seem mild by comparison and could be used much more often.


I'd like a "meh" option too, whose meaning would be sort of like "neutral" but more kind of "almost right, but still needs tweaking".

But seriously, the point about cultural differences is very important. I learnt ages ago that it can be very easy to offend people on such a broad forum and nowadays usually try my best not to tread on too many toes.


 
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