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Old wine in new wineskins?
Thread poster: DLyons

DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 08:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
Apr 9, 2014

There's a new username which has recently started posting quite a few questions of a fairly basic nature. Something about the postings seemed familiar, and a quick check showed it's a user who was regarded by many as an abuser of the system and who no longer asks questions under their original username.

This "new" user seems to have been able to suppress the ProZ history of questions asked, so there's no longer much record of what might be regarded as a recommencement of system abuse.

Thoughts?


 

ATIL KAYHAN  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 10:29
Member (2007)
Turkish to English
+ ...
Language Pair Apr 9, 2014

Which language pair are we talking about here?

 

DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 08:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
FIGS generally, not Turkish probably. Apr 9, 2014

ATIL KAYHAN wrote:

Which language pair are we talking about here?


More than one, but it's best not to be too specific.


 

Victoria Britten  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 09:29
Member (2012)
French to English
+ ...
Alert site staff Apr 9, 2014

Whilst absolutely not calling what you say into doubt, I'm intrigued as to how you can be absolutely sure it's the same user despite the different name and absent KudoZ history (I assume this is what we're talking about - ?). However, if you have been able to identify this user, then so should site staff be able to. It's then up to them to decide what may be appropriate action to take, or not, and up to the rest of us to be happy or not about that decision.

quick edit for precision purposes

[Edited at 2014-04-09 16:11 GMT]


 

DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 08:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Lots of linkages. Apr 9, 2014

Victoria Britten wrote:

Whilst absolutely not calling what you say into doubt, I'm intrigued as to how you can know it's the same user despite the different name and absent KudoZ history (I assume this is what we're talking about - ?). However, if you have been able to identify this user, then so should site staff be able to. It's then up to them to decide what may be appropriate action to take, or not, and up to the rest of us to be happy or not about that decision.


There are some key phrases in the two profiles, there are some internal ProZ links and there is related TranslatorsCafe activity.

I don't know if site staff regarded the person as a system abuser - but many ProZ and TranslatorsCafe members did. The questions asked often got very negative feedback.

[Edited at 2014-04-10 09:23 GMT]


 

Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 04:29
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
Please submit a support request Apr 9, 2014

If you suspect a violation of site rules please submit a support request, as site staff has appropriate tools for investigating abuse.

Regards,
Enrique


 

DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 08:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
"No violation of site rules" Apr 9, 2014

Enrique Cavalitto wrote:

If you suspect a violation of site rules please submit a support request, as site staff has appropriate tools for investigating abuse.

Regards,
Enrique


Thanks Enrique,

I've done that. Site staff report "No violation of site rules".


 

Sabine Reynaud  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:29
German to English
+ ...
site staff and rules Apr 10, 2014

Does site staff ever actually do anything to enforce rules? They always close an issue after giving a useless absolutely non-commital answer. The policy seems to be not to get involved in anything. Am I the only one getting this impression?

 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:29
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Two profiles for the same person is against the rules Apr 10, 2014

DLyons wrote:

Enrique Cavalitto wrote:

If you suspect a violation of site rules please submit a support request, as site staff has appropriate tools for investigating abuse.

Regards,
Enrique


Thanks Enrique,

I've done that. Site staff report "No violation of site rules".


Aside of the KudoZ issue, having two profiles is against the rules.

http://www.proz.com/siterules/general/7#7

Site staff usually investigates, and if the two profiles belong to the same person, they merge them. At least this is what they used to do. Merged profiles will have all history merged from both profiles, including their forum and KudoZ activity.
Please resubmit the support request, emphasizing the evidence you found about the identity of the profile owners.

Katalin

[Edited at 2014-04-10 02:55 GMT]


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 04:29
SITE STAFF
It is fairly straightforward Apr 10, 2014

Sabine Reynaud wrote:

Does site staff ever actually do anything to enforce rules? They always close an issue after giving a useless absolutely non-commital answer. The policy seems to be not to get involved in anything. Am I the only one getting this impression?


The rules that govern the use of the site are located at http://www.proz.com/rules/

When it comes to rules enforcement, when site rules have been violated, site staff do actually enforce them (as do site moderators, and site members also help in ensuring rules are followed). When site rules have not been violated, site staff does not get involved.

DLyons' question, as it was put forth to support, and as I understand it here, is whether asking a lot of questions of a basic nature is in violation of site rules (we could argue about the definitions of "a lot" and "of a basic nature", which are probably subjective). The answer to that question is that no, they are not a violation of site rules. In fact, the KudoZ system automatically contemplates both, with limits on asking and the non-PRO status for questions.

If I have misunderstood the issue, please let me know.

Jared


 

Jared Tabor
Local time: 04:29
SITE STAFF
Only one profile involved Apr 10, 2014

Hi Katalin,

In this instance, only one profile is involved, and the owner has chosen to change the name they use on the site.

Jared


 

DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 08:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Summary and Suggestion. Apr 10, 2014

I've looked at the rules and the relevant ones in this case seem to be:

2.8 There is a limit to the number of "help" KudoZ questions that can be posted per day and per week.
I don't know what these numbers are - are they posted somewhere? My impression though is that members generally wouldn't have a problem with these, what they usually seem to object to is this user's lifetime history of some 5,800 questions. I thought the change of username had meant that their previous history was now hidden, but a member pointed out to me that it's visible at
http://www.proz.com/profile/999999?show_mode=kudoz&sub_mode=asked
(where 999999 is to be replaced with whatever userid you want to see).


2.1 (Guideline): "Help" KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help only after other resources have been exhausted.
This is probably most people's main bone of contention. Jared mentions subjectivity, but I could go through this user's history and easily quote hundreds of clear examples where this "Rule" has been breached. So when is a Rule not a Rule? When it's a Guideline!

[I'd love to see the history of the rules themselves and when the word "Guideline" was inserted. And indeed what were the reasons for its being inserted.]

Suggestion
I imagine that few members would object to occasional breaches of this guideline - we're all human and have moments of pressure, tiredness, blank spots etc - but that most members would object to regular breaches. So what's needed is some way of tracking alleged breaches and investigation by site staff once these cross some fairly generous threshold (e.g. 100/yr). This is easy to implement technically and would demand minimal action because it would almost never arise (its mere existence would minimize its usage).

Or, even simpler, that site staff would privately remind this and any similar users (if they exist) of Rule 2.1 and then enforce it in these specific cases.

[Edited at 2014-04-10 06:32 GMT]

[Edited at 2014-04-10 06:36 GMT]


 

Enrique Cavalitto  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 04:29
Member (2006)
English to Spanish
KudoZ limits Apr 10, 2014

DLyons wrote:

I've looked at the rules and the relevant ones in this case seem to be:
2.8 There is a limit to the number of "help" KudoZ questions that can be posted per day and per week.
I don't know what these numbers are - are they posted somewhere?


They can be found at this FAQ:



Regards,
Enrique


 

DLyons  Identity Verified
Ireland
Local time: 08:29
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks for that Enrique. Apr 10, 2014

Enrique Cavalitto wrote:

DLyons wrote:

I've looked at the rules and the relevant ones in this case seem to be:
2.8 There is a limit to the number of "help" KudoZ questions that can be posted per day and per week.
I don't know what these numbers are - are they posted somewhere?


They can be found at this FAQ:



Regards,
Enrique


60 questions a week is quite a few for a professional to need to ask, but it doesn't bother me unduly. But 60*52 per year wouldicon_smile.gif Or even 1,000 per annum would bother me - but that's just a personal view.

I stumbled across an old thread perhaps referring to completely different users, but with the same general theme. There may be other similar threads but I haven't time to trawl for them

http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/224848-what_is_the_highest_number_of_kudoz_questions_asked_by_a_single_individual-page11.html#1992284

P.S. That thread ends with a post from Jared of the following interesting link
http://www.proz.com/about/cornerstones/


[Edited at 2014-04-10 15:36 GMT]


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:29
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Jared, changing the user name does not delete history, does it? Apr 10, 2014

Jared Tabor wrote:

Hi Katalin,

In this instance, only one profile is involved, and the owner has chosen to change the name they use on the site.

Jared


But the OP wrote:
This "new" user seems to have been able to suppress the ProZ history of questions asked, so there's no longer much record of what might be regarded as a recommencement of system abuse.


Something does not seem right here.
If I keep my profile and simply change my user name, all of my history, including KudoZ questions asked should remain intact. However, he OP says the person's past questions are not visible.

Can you clarify what is going on?


 
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