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Adding the wrong answer to the glossary
Thread poster: Salam Alrawi

Salam Alrawi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:47
English to Arabic
+ ...
Nov 14, 2014

It is very frustrating when the asker asks a question and the answerer confuses the whole meaning of the sentence and the asker picks it as the right answer and it goes to glossary. Isn't that a suicide for the translation?

"Non-U.S." Should not be confused with "no U.S."

Non-U.S. Attempt, does not equal, No U.S. Attempt

And then I ask myself, why bother?

[Edited at 2014-11-14 22:47 GMT]


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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 03:47
English to Spanish
+ ...
Why bother? Nov 14, 2014

...is right.

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texjax DDS PhD  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:47
Member (2006)
English to Italian
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Humm... Nov 14, 2014

Isn't that a suicide for the translation?



It looks more like a murder to me...


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peninsular  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 15:17
Russian to English
+ ...
commonplace Nov 15, 2014

Happens all the time. Give your answer and move on.

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Phil Hand  Identity Verified
China
Local time: 17:47
Chinese to English
It's the agrees that get me Nov 15, 2014

Wrong answers are a fact of life, hell, I've given a few. Choosing the wrong answer, well that can happen for a variety of reasons. But a wrong answer with a string of agrees, what's that about?

Mind you, Kudoz is not the worst. In a recent Proz contest, the winner in the Engilsh-Chinese category, as voted for by a plurality of our peers, failed to even formally represent the original in sentences of target language. Each sentence had to have an explanation in parentheses afterwards, and of course the explanations were all wrong. Apparently that's what a lot of "translators" like. @rant


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Salam Alrawi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:47
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Graduate vs postgraduate dillema Nov 15, 2014

This is a conflict I have found between western and eastern countries. Not sure if one of them is right and the other is wrong or both right.

In middle east, master degree studies are called "postgraduate studies", in United States are called "graduate studies"
I tried to explain this, well... I feel like I am talking to a wall


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Salam Alrawi  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:47
English to Arabic
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
defining vs translating Nov 15, 2014

Phil Hand wrote:

Wrong answers are a fact of life, hell, I've given a few. Choosing the wrong answer, well that can happen for a variety of reasons. But a wrong answer with a string of agrees, what's that about?

Mind you, Kudoz is not the worst. In a recent Proz contest, the winner in the Engilsh-Chinese category, as voted for by a plurality of our peers, failed to even formally represent the original in sentences of target language. Each sentence had to have an explanation in parentheses afterwards, and of course the explanations were all wrong. Apparently that's what a lot of "translators" like. @rant


I think you are talking about what I call "defining" instead of "translating".

As far as the "agrees" they are buy one get ten free


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:47
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
In the current contest, what bothered me is a word was mistranslated in most Chinese entires Nov 15, 2014

Phil Hand wrote:
In a recent Proz contest, the winner in the English-Chinese category, as voted for by a plurality of our peers, failed to even formally represent the original in sentences of target language. Each sentence had to have an explanation in parentheses afterwards, and of course the explanations were all wrong. Apparently that's what a lot of "translators" like. @rant


It is the word of "fruit". 90 % of the participants literally translated it as fruit but tomato is not a fruit in Chinese. It is a vegetable.

Sadly very few people thought about the issue that much.


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LilianNekipelov  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:47
Russian to English
+ ...
Yes, absolutely. Nov 15, 2014

Phil Hand wrote:

Wrong answers are a fact of life, hell, I've given a few. Choosing the wrong answer, well that can happen for a variety of reasons. But a wrong answer with a string of agrees, what's that about?

Mind you, Kudoz is not the worst. In a recent Proz contest, the winner in the Engilsh-Chinese category, as voted for by a plurality of our peers, failed to even formally represent the original in sentences of target language. Each sentence had to have an explanation in parentheses afterwards, and of course the explanations were all wrong. Apparently that's what a lot of "translators" like. @rant


It seems totally bizarre to me when the wrong answer, especially completely wrong in the particular context, has six or eight "agrees".

The contest too, a great idea, really nice texts, but no qualified, or very few qualified people capable of evaluating the translations. Some with no knowledge or grammar changing correct sentences into wrong structures- and leaving real mistakes untouched--all in read, for other people to see nothing but the read, which would make them unable to really read the texts impartially. It is slightly off topic here, but I do not think it is good idea that other people should see what someone corrected (in 90% of the cases wrongly) or even liked, except the translator himself or herself. Things like that influence the evaluator's impartial judgement, and make it very hard to read the text, and see it as a whole, which is the onlyy thing that matters for a translation in the end--the final overall impression or quality. Also, I think that at the end of any competion the names of the people who made those remarks should be revealed.

[Edited at 2014-11-15 08:39 GMT]


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Ana Cuesta  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:47
Member
English to Spanish
More uhm... Nov 15, 2014

texjax DDS PhD wrote:

Isn't that a suicide for the translation?



It looks more like a murder to me...



What would seem a suicide to me would be blindly trusting the kudoz glossary


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Madeleine Chevassus  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:47
Member (2010)
English to French
two or three "suggested" answers in the answer field: invalid? Nov 15, 2014

What I don't like in Kudoz is seeing a member answering with two or three "suggested" answers in the answer field.

the answerer shoud choose one answer and put the others below, as comments

the possible Kudoz points shouldn't be valid (because more than one answer).

It is impossible to agree / disagree to several answers proposed together in the answer field.

In case of "success", what would be the result in the Kudoz glossary?


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Susana E. Cano Méndez  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:47
Member
French to Spanish
+ ...
Agree with Ana Cuesta Nov 15, 2014

I have asked some terms in Kudoz forum. I have granted the points to the most useful translation. And, building the glossary, I have put in parenthesis that I had a reasonable doubt, however. The most useful translation is not always the right translation (btw, what's a "right translation"?), but probably one that leads you trough the right path.

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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:47
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
What if there are several synonyms for a term? Nov 15, 2014

Madeleine Chevassus wrote:

What I don't like in Kudoz is seeing a member answering with two or three "suggested" answers in the answer field.

the answerer shoud choose one answer and put the others below, as comments

the possible Kudoz points shouldn't be valid (because more than one answer).

It is impossible to agree / disagree to several answers proposed together in the answer field.

In case of "success", what would be the result in the Kudoz glossary?


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Tamas Elek  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:47
Member (2014)
Hungarian to English
+ ...
Who should choose the best answer? Nov 15, 2014

I think the main problem with the whole system is that it is the asker who has to choose the best answer.

It is clear that the asker asks the term, because he/she does not know the answer, or in the very least, not sure what the right answer is. Obviously, there is no perfect way, but I think automatic selection based on peer agreement may be a better solution, although I also had the chance to see wrong answers with 4-5 agrees on it. In the alternative, in the very least some other way should be provided to override the glossary based on peer agreement or in some other way. Another solution might be to prevent terms entered into the glossary without a certain number of peer agrees.

Having a glossary with lots of wrong terms is actually worse than having no glossary at all. What is even worse, if someone runs an online search, these terms come in the very beginning of the search results, so there is an inherent risk that a wrong term may be used over and over again.

For now, the only solution is not to trust the glossary without double checking it.

[Edited at 2014-11-15 11:06 GMT]

[Edited at 2014-11-15 11:08 GMT]


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Claire Bourneton-Gerlach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 11:47
Member
German to French
+ ...
Please.... Nov 15, 2014

don't use the word "suicide" in such a trivial matter like translating....

Thx
Claire


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