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What should the answerers do when some asker keeps choosing the wrong answers?
Thread poster: Mark Xiang

Mark Xiang
Local time: 12:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
Jan 3, 2005

Some askers habitually and frequently asks a lot of questions. That should be good to those who want to earn some KudoZ points. The problem is that some askers keeps choosing the wrong answers and awards points to the answerers who provide the wrong answers. What should the answerers who provide the right answers do? Or could www.proz.com do something regarding this problem?

[Edited at 2005-01-03 10:36]

[Edited at 2005-01-04 02:59]


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 06:34
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Contact a Moderator ... Jan 3, 2005

There will always be problems with a system like KudoZ, but when someone consistently chooses wrong answers, then it spoils the glossary that is built up.

It is not fair when points go to the wrong answerer, but often other translators know who gives the best answers even if they do not always have many KudoZ points. Good translators may be too busy working to answer all the questions they see!


Luckily all the answers can be seen when the glossary is searched, not only the one which was chosen by the asker. Later users can see the comments and alternative answers. Sometimes a different answer fits better in another situation, even if the chosen one was right for the first asker.

But a Moderator can make changes if the asker and the answerer agree, and perhaps in other cases, if there are serious mistakes.

Happy New Year!


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Mark Xiang
Local time: 12:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you, Cristine! Jan 3, 2005

Yes, you are right.

Maybe the other choice is refraining from offering any answer to that kind of askers. ^_^

Happy New Year!


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Alaa Zeineldine  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 06:34
Member (2002)
English to Arabic
+ ...
Another angle Jan 3, 2005

While a selected answer is often seen as a reflection on the answerer's skills, I have also found it an excellent indication of the asker's own experience and judgment. In fact, choosing the wrong answer may be even more telling than offering the wrong one.

So outsourcers would do well to check a translator's choices of Kudoz answers to see if their candidate at least knows what to look for.

[Edited at 2005-01-03 14:21]


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Mark Xiang
Local time: 12:34
English to Chinese
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Yes, Alaa Zeineldine. Jan 3, 2005

The problem is that in most case, the outsourcers do not know one of the two languages in the pair. So they could not make any judgement.

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two2tango  Identity Verified
Argentina
Local time: 01:34
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
Not much to do Jan 3, 2005

In fact there is not much to do when you feel an asker selected a wrong answer. It may be useful to revisit the rules in place for the KudoZ system, as stated in http://www.proz.com/kudozrules


3.4 - Commenting to an asker regarding his/her decision to post a certain question, to grade a certain way, or to make a certain glossary entry, is strictly forbidden. (Glossary entries can be edited after a question is closed without the involvement of an asker. Point decisions can be undone only by joint request to a moderator from both the asker and the person who was awarded the points.)


Regards,
Enrique Cavalitto


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Ines Garcia Botana  Identity Verified
Local time: 01:34
Member
English to Spanish
+ ...
There is something you can do Jan 3, 2005

Once, someone posted "Gran Capitán" from Spanish to English. As soon as I read it, I knew WHO they were talking about. I read the answers: all wrong. That person had already chosen one of the wrong answers. I contacted him through proz.com and told him that his question belonged to our General Don José de San Martín, widely known as "el Gran Capitán." I did not answer his question. I asked him to contact the moderator and inform him/her about it, as I was worried about the glossary entry.
He was very kind, thanked me and did it.

If there is a will, there is a way.

I wish you a wonderful 2005!

Inés


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Stephanie Mitchel  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 00:34
French to English
Subjectivity Jan 3, 2005

I have had emails from a translator whose answer I did not select, telling me that I chose the wrong answer - which I find improbable, since I usually do my own research on the answers given, and inappropriate in any case. If the translator feels underappreciated, I'd expect them to choose not to answer my queries in the future, and leave it at that.

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NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 00:34
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
NBA = No Bullies Allowed ;-) Jan 3, 2005

proZ.com is not a schoolyard. Disgruntled answerers should not pressure or bully askers to select one answer over another.

There is another option open to us all: we can make as many glossary entries we wish, and earn browniZ to boot!

Anyone harassed by a member merely for selecting the answer that fits his or her context should contact a moderator. That's what we're here for.

Happy New Year, everyone!

Nancy


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hirselina
Italian to Dutch
+ ...
Not a schoolyard? Jan 3, 2005

I must say that sometimes proz.com does remind me of a schoolyard, especially in certain language pairs where the idea seems to be to give "best friends" as many points as possible, even if they systematically give late and/or wrong answers. As far as I am concerned, finding confirmation of these "hidden patterns" is one aspect of proz.com that is always good for a laugh.

Reading insulting comments or private mail from answerers who object to a "neutral" or "disagree" is less fun, but it also seems to be part of the game.

Happy 2005 to everyone!


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Michele Fauble  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 21:34
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
Answer selectively Jan 3, 2005

Some askers will consistently select the wrong answer. This is an indication of the asker's competence. If I feel an asker is unlikely to select the correct answer, I do not waste my time answering that asker's questions.


Michele


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Gabrielle Weatherhead  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:34
Romanian to English
+ ...
What happened to our choices: Agree, Disagree, Neutral? Jan 3, 2005

We still have a choice when there is a wrong answer there, we can always disagree and provide some reason,explanation, a link or something credible to persuade the asker to weigh his/her answer carefully. But in general I agree that if the asker is so out of his/her depth to just jump at a solution without doing some background work, than so be it.

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chica nueva
Local time: 17:34
Chinese to English
It doesn't matter... Jan 4, 2005

Some big asker keeps choosing the wrong answers? I haven't noticed it.

I don't think it really matters. It depends what you are in Kudoz for. The answers chosen are a matter of personal preference really. The asker's choice is final,that is the rule, for a good reason. As an answerer, you do the work you get a range of answers posted and you learn from that. You also learn about the range of translators that are out there amongst your peers and how they operate. The whole range of answers, even those not chosen, is available to people later through Kudoz.Search. Actually there is no working glossary for the Chinese-English English-Chinese Kudoz pair.At this stage I find the Kudoz process more interesting than the points side, though I might have felt differently a year ago, when I was newer to Proz.

What I have found anyway is that there are different variants of English or Chinese depending on which part of the world you are in, and on which field you are talking about. In scientific/technical/legal fields it is relatively set. But in other fields it isn't, especially when it comes to the vernacular. It's a fluid situation, that's the reality, and what you get on Kudoz is just a microcosm of the big picture. China seems to be in a process of absorbing a huge amount of Western literature. If the process is imperfect, that is understandable. When you are dealing in a second language, your first understanding is often far from perfect.

Sure there might be favouritism, but you get that anywhere. If it's really blatant, then I guess the moderator could be approached about it. I haven't noticed it though, but I haven't really been paying attention. A lot of people place less credence on an answer provided by a foreigner or an outsider. It is a group thing. This might result in the PRC for instance, in answers from 'outside - from foreigners, Hong Kong Taiwan and Singapore peers' being given less credence by certain people, not everyone. There are all sorts really. Pick the ones that are broadminded - the real linguists, you will recognise them.

Yeah, we do have a person who dominates the English to Chinese language pair and has asked literally thousands of questions, and apparently doesn't use dictionaries or Google or Kudoz Search to their full extent. I guess he is using Kudoz as a free service - maybe he is lazy - who can tell. As far as I can see, some of the questions are a bit boring and not many people answer them. We had others in the past who used Kudoz extensively for help in translating novels. In that case, all the words were in the dictionary, so the askers were redirected. Personally, I think perhaps these people should hire an assistant to do their research and pay them. But there you go, it takes all sorts.

[Edited at 2005-01-04 01:06]

[Edited at 2005-01-04 05:07]

[Edited at 2005-01-04 07:42]

[Edited at 2005-01-04 07:43]


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chica nueva
Local time: 17:34
Chinese to English
Suit your answers to the asker; reputation takes a while to build Jan 4, 2005

Another suggestion is that sometimes it helps to put yourself in the asker's position and understand what they want. Different askers have their own quirks. That means I'm less likely to take the decision personally. Also, sometimes the askers keep picking the peers that have a high profile and strong history in Kudoz. Be patient, it takes time to build up a reputation. Sometimes it takes time to be noticed. People come and go.

Some askers like references and some don't seem to care. As a non-native Chinese I nearly always reference, to be credible. It seems to get me points, and it helps contribute to the discussion, I think. And it's always nice to have your work recognised by other peers, with an agree, or a comment, regardless of the asker's final choice. At the end of the day, that is more worthwhile than bothering too much about the asker. Some askers are very generous and grateful with thanks. Well, our asker is not quite like that, more like a director of operations. Never mind, perhaps that's not important.


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chica nueva
Local time: 17:34
Chinese to English
Try a change of scene... Jan 4, 2005

How about just forget the English - Chinese Kudoz pair for a while and focus on the other pairs, or just visit it every so often...

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