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Do you think it is fair to have a question removed if answers have already been provided?
Thread poster: jyuan_us

jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:23
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Oct 23, 2016

I recently found that some Kudoz questions had been removed before the asker was given a chance to select an answer.

Do you think it is fair to have a question removed if answers have already been provided?

To me, it is not. Removing a question with answers already provided means the time spent by the answerers has been totally wasted.

What do you think?

[Edited at 2016-10-23 04:53 GMT]


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inesec  Identity Verified
Latvia
Member (2014)
German to English
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Yes, it's unfair Oct 23, 2016

jyuan_us wrote:

I recently found that some Kudoz questions had been removed before the asker was given a chance to select an answer.

Do you think it is fair to have a question removed if answers have already been provided?

To me, it is not. Removing a question with answers already provided means the time spent by the answerers has been totally wasted.

What do you think?

[Edited at 2016-10-23 04:53 GMT]


and together with some other strange practices including childish behavior if some wannabe "terminologists" it was the reason why I quit my participation in KudoZ activities. Of course, it's just my 2 cents but I believe that KudoZ in its current form is a complete waste of time. Of course, my opinion is based only on my language pairs.


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Jack Doughty  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
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More information on removed questions should be left visible. Oct 23, 2016

I am not concerned ao much about an asker removing his own question, but when a question is removed by moderators or staff, we are told to contact a moderator if we object to the removal. But this is not possible as it has been entirely removed. The only information about it is in the original email asking for answers, and this is not sufficient.

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Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:23
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Definitely agree Oct 23, 2016

jyuan_us wrote:

I recently found that some Kudoz questions had been removed before the asker was given a chance to select an answer.

Do you think it is fair to have a question removed if answers have already been provided?

To me, it is not. Removing a question with answers already provided means the time spent by the answerers has been totally wasted.

What do you think?


Totally agree. In fact, I believe I had already raised this with support a long while ago.

If I remember correctly, I had also told them that, if they're going to remove questions no matter what, they should at the very least let those who gave an answer have the text of their answer, so that it's not just deleted and lost.

Furthermore, sometimes questions get squashed because the asker used more than 9 words in the question, asked about more than one term, or things like that, so they'll probably just reformulate the question, in which case you'd have to rewrite your answer (including references) from scratch.


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:23
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So, what if... Oct 23, 2016

Let's say there is this guy setting up a makeshift table on the street corner selling something (I don't know, counterfeit watches, or something). He sells a few items before the police finds him. Should the police leave him alone, just because some people already bought his stuff?

[Edited at 2016-10-23 15:53 GMT]


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philgoddard
United States
German to English
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Good point Oct 23, 2016

Katalin. If you post an answer to a question that breaks the rules, you know that answer is likely to be deleted along with the question.

[Edited at 2016-10-23 16:01 GMT]


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Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post

Mirko Mainardi  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 22:23
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Buyers ≠ Answerers Oct 23, 2016

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Let's say there is this guy setting up a makeshift table on the street corner selling something (I don't know, counterfeit watches, or something). He sells a few items before the police finds him. Should the police leave him alone, just because some people already bought his stuff?


Apples and oranges. Furthermore, the OP clearly wrote "Removing a question with answers already provided means the time spent by the answerers has been totally wasted". How does this apply to your example?

[Edited at 2016-10-24 08:35 GMT]


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EvaVer  Identity Verified
Local time: 22:23
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May I remind you Oct 24, 2016

that the primary purpose of KudoZ is to help each other, not to get points? At least, it has always been to me.

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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 22:23
Member (2006)
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Yes Oct 24, 2016

jyuan_us wrote:
Do you think it is fair to have a question removed if answers have already been provided? ... To me, it is not. Removing a question with answers already provided means the time spent by the answerers has been totally wasted.


I agree with you, but the same applies to forum posts that get removed simply because the original post got removed. The people who write replies spend time writing them, and threads that get deleted/hidden sometimes contain very good, useful posts from other members.


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
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Local time: 16:23
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Who did the wrong thing? Oct 24, 2016

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Let's say there is this guy setting up a makeshift table on the street corner selling something (I don't know, counterfeit watches, or something). He sells a few items before the police finds him. Should the police leave him alone, just because some people already bought his stuff?


Apples and oranges. Furthermore, the OP clearly wrote "Removing a question with answers already provided means the time spent by the answerers has been totally wasted". How does this apply to your example?

[Edited at 2016-10-24 08:35 GMT]


Others already brought up several points that illustrate how it applies. You did not answer my question, which was "Should the police leave him alone, just because some people already bought his stuff?"
I am quite sure your answer would be "No".

You say you don't see how it applies to the OP's post. Well, like this:
"Dear Police Department,
I saw in the newspaper that you arrested XY for selling fake watches. I bought one from him just yesterday. I didn't know those watches were counterfeit. Are you telling me I totally wasted $20?"

If you still don't see the point, let's say the guy was not on the street corner but selling his merchandise online. You ordered and prepaid for a beautiful "Rolex". The police arrests him before he could send you the stuff. Should the police have let him continue operations just because some people already paid for their orders? And if the police shuts down the "business", are they responsible for your loss in any way?

I understand it is frustrating having spent time on an answer when it subsequently gets removed. But it is not right to direct your frustration at the moderator or staff for removing the offending question. If you need to direct your frustration at someone, that should be the person who posted the question that broke the rules. You, as an answerer, should know the rules just as well as those who post questions. They apply to everybody. If you know the rules, you should recognize when a question is violating them. At that point you have two options: ignore it (so you are not helping the asker), or report it (so that it would be removed ASAP, preventing others from answering and then getting frustrated by the subsequent removal). If you don't know the rules and don't realize that the question is "illegal", that is too bad, but it will be only a temporary gap of knowledge, because you will learn it the hard way, when your carefully crafted answer is removed along with the question. Again, if you are angry about it, I understand, but you should not be angry with the moderators or staff, you should be angry with the person posted the question. Just the same way you should not be angry with the police for shutting down the illegal watch business.

By the way, one more thing that I think is helpful to know. One reason for this situation to occur is that the moderators/staff don't get to the question before some people post answers. Since the moderators/staff are human beings, you can't expect them to watch all posted questions all the time. That's why there are many "KudoZ editors" in the community who are regular members and have the ability to squash questions in their own language pairs. Oftentimes they get to these questions much faster than moderators or staff would, and squash them before anybody answers them (thus, preventing the frustration we are discussing here). HOWEVER, if there is even a single answer posted to a question, the system automatically blocks these KudoZ editors from squashing the question. It can only be squashed by a "higher authority", and therefore it will be there, open, for a longer time. (Thus, allowing more people to post answers.) So, if you think about it, posting an answer to an offending question is actually the worst thing you can do.

I hope this explains my line of thought.
Katalin

[Edited to clarify a pronoun.]


[Edited at 2016-10-24 12:57 GMT]


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:23
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I think your argument has been based on a false analogy Oct 24, 2016

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Mirko Mainardi wrote:

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

Let's say there is this guy setting up a makeshift table on the street corner selling something (I don't know, counterfeit watches, or something). He sells a few items before the police finds him. Should the police leave him alone, just because some people already bought his stuff?


Apples and oranges. Furthermore, the OP clearly wrote "Removing a question with answers already provided means the time spent by the answerers has been totally wasted". How does this apply to your example?

[Edited at 2016-10-24 08:35 GMT]


Others already brought up several points that illustrate how it applies. You did not answer my question, which was "Should the police leave him alone, just because some people already bought his stuff?"
I am quite sure your answer would be "No".

You say you don't see how it applies to the OP's post. Well, like this:
"Dear Police Department,
I saw in the newspaper that you arrested XY for selling fake watches. I bought one from him just yesterday. I didn't know those watches were counterfeit. Are you telling me I totally wasted $20?"

If you still don't see the point, let's say the guy was not on the street corner but selling his merchandise online. You ordered and prepaid for a beautiful "Rolex". The police arrests him before he could send you the stuff. Should the police have let him continue operations just because some people already paid for their orders? And if the police shuts down the "business", are they responsible for your loss in any way?

I understand it is frustrating having spent time on an answer when it subsequently gets removed. But it is not right to direct your frustration at the moderator or staff for removing the offending question. If you need to direct your frustration at someone, that should be the person who posted the question that broke the rules. You, as an answerer, should know the rules just as well as those who post questions. They apply to everybody. If you know the rules, you should recognize when a question is violating them. At that point you have two options: ignore it (so you are not helping the asker), or report it (so that it would be removed ASAP, preventing others from answering and then getting frustrated by the subsequent removal). If you don't know the rules and don't realize that the question is "illegal", that is too bad, but it will be only a temporary gap of knowledge, because you will learn it the hard way, when your carefully crafted answer is removed along with the question. Again, if you are angry about it, I understand, but you should not be angry with the moderators or staff, you should be angry with the person posted the question. Just the same way you should not be angry with the police for shutting down the illegal watch business.

By the way, one more thing that I think is helpful to know. One reason for this situation to occur is that the moderators/staff don't get to the question before some people post answers. Since the moderators/staff are human beings, you can't expect them to watch all posted questions all the time. That's why there are many "KudoZ editors" in the community who are regular members and have the ability to squash questions in their own language pairs. Oftentimes they get to these questions much faster than moderators or staff would, and squash them before anybody answers them (thus, preventing the frustration we are discussing here). HOWEVER, if there is even a single answer posted to a question, the system automatically blocks these KudoZ editors from squashing the question. It can only be squashed by a "higher authority", and therefore it will be there, open, for a longer time. (Thus, allowing more people to post answers.) So, if you think about it, posting an answer to an offending question is actually the worst thing you can do.

I hope this explains my line of thought.
Katalin

[Edited to clarify a pronoun.]


[Edited at 2016-10-24 12:57 GMT]


This is because you compared things are not readily comparable.


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:23
Member (2002)
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How so? Oct 24, 2016

jyuan_us wrote:

you compared things are not readily comparable.


How so?

As far as I understand, you are frustrated because you made a contribution (posted an answer = sent money to the watch guy on eBay) in anticipation of a reward (points = a Rolex), but you were not able to get your reward (points = the Rolex), because the transaction was never completed (the question was found to be violating the rules and got squashed = the police found out about the guy and shut his business down).

But you can ignore the whole analogy.
The point is, if the question violates the rules, it violates the rules. Having an answer posted already does not change that fact. If you would allow it to change, that would open up a whole other can of worms (i.e. "double standard"). Just think about it: many people run the red light. It does not make it legal.


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Sheila Wilson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 21:23
Member (2007)
English
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This isn't an analogy at all Oct 24, 2016

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:
I understand it is frustrating having spent time on an answer when it subsequently gets removed. But it is not right to direct your frustration at the moderator or staff for removing the offending question. If you need to direct your frustration at someone, that should be the person who posted the question that broke the rules. You, as an answerer, should know the rules just as well as those who post questions. They apply to everybody. If you know the rules, you should recognize when a question is violating them. At that point you have two options: ignore it (so you are not helping the asker), or report it (so that it would be removed ASAP, preventing others from answering and then getting frustrated by the subsequent removal). If you don't know the rules and don't realize that the question is "illegal", that is too bad, but it will be only a temporary gap of knowledge, because you will learn it the hard way, when your carefully crafted answer is removed along with the question. Again, if you are angry about it, I understand, but you should not be angry with the moderators or staff, you should be angry with the person posted the question.

By the way, one more thing that I think is helpful to know. One reason for this situation to occur is that the moderators/staff don't get to the question before some people post answers. Since the moderators/staff are human beings, you can't expect them to watch all posted questions all the time. That's why there are many "KudoZ editors" in the community who are regular members and have the ability to squash questions in their own language pairs. Oftentimes they get to these questions much faster than moderators or staff would, and squash them before anybody answers them (thus, preventing the frustration we are discussing here). HOWEVER, if there is even a single answer posted to a question, the system automatically blocks these KudoZ editors from squashing the question. It can only be squashed by a "higher authority", and therefore it will be there, open, for a longer time. (Thus, allowing more people to post answers.) So, if you think about it, posting an answer to an offending question is actually the worst thing you can do.

Whatever you think of the analogy given earlier, the above seems to me to be a very clear description of the way KudoZ moderation works and why it works that way. Although a few individual cases might cause a little exasperation, I'm sure we'd all be a good deal more exasperated with any other procedure. As an example, allow an asker to include two terms in a question and you'll find that answer one will address one part, answer two will address the other part, a third answer will address both parts, and all three answers may be perfectly correct - so who gets the points? It follows that two out of the three are going to be annoyed. And even if it isn't about points, how useful can that be in the glossary?


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jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:23
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If the word has only the black and white color Oct 24, 2016

Katalin Horváth McClure wrote:

jyuan_us wrote:

you compared things are not readily comparable.


How so?

As far as I understand, you are frustrated because you made a contribution (posted an answer = sent money to the watch guy on eBay) in anticipation of a reward (points = a Rolex), but you were not able to get your reward (points = the Rolex), because the transaction was never completed (the question was found to be violating the rules and got squashed = the police found out about the guy and shut his business down).

But you can ignore the whole analogy.
The point is, if the question violates the rules, it violates the rules. Having an answer posted already does not change that fact. If you would allow it to change, that would open up a whole other can of worms (i.e. "double standard"). Just think about it: many people run the red light. It does not make it legal.


Your argument might hold true but there are many more colors in between. I will elaborate on this point later one when I get more time.

I still find it hard to believe that you even compared the site contributors (Kudoz question answerers) to those who support illegal activities by purchasing fake products. Logically speaking alone, your logic is still beyond me. As an answerer, I "sell" my time for the point, not "buy" the point as you thought. So I hope you don't ever again compare us the answerers to the buyers of faker products.

I was not frustrated as you said. I just raised this as an issue for discussion.


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