| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Platinum KudoZ answerers to be given favored exposure in new leaderboard, KudoZ pages Thread poster: Henry Dotterer
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| That's true... | Apr 20, 2005 |
CMJ_Trans wrote:
Never forget that is volunteers such as myself, and others of similar ilk, that help keep your business going.
It is true that people contribute in various ways, and that we all benefit from the linguistic contributions of non-paying members (even just people who have nothing to do with ProZ.com, but search the internet for a term!). But it is also true that the platinum members of this site subsidize everyone's use of it. For example, your own recent support request was answered by a human, CMJ_Trans. Someone paid for that--our platinum members.
So just as platinum members should not forget the contributions of non-paying members, non-paying members should bear in mind who is paying the bill (platinums). It is appropriate not only to express our appreciation to platinum members, but also to afford them advantages that repay their investment--hopefully several times over.
By the way, you may have noticed that 2/3 of your fellow KudoZ point leaders are platinum now (many having renewed). I hope you will consider joining in rather than leaving!
| | | | | My mistake, Charlie, it is a "no" | Apr 20, 2005 |
Charlie Bavington wrote:
My question was about non-platinum members.
It's as I suspected then. You can only (easily) get to the profile page from the new pop-up, and a member only has a pop up if they're platinum.
By extension, therefore, non-platinum members cannot be contacted from their profile page via the kudoz leader board, because visitors won't be able to access the profile page from the leader board. True?
That is correct. Sorry for misreading your post.
I suggest you and others do wait and see before making a decision, though. This changes will be visible tomorrow, at least in the new leaderboard.
| | | | Kirill Semenov 
Ukraine
Local time: 19:40
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
Konstantin Kisin wrote:
Here, you're just playing a game on Kudoz and helping other translators in the process. At the same time, you're getting the _free_ opportunity to bid on jobs, receive and give advice and a whole wealth of other beneficial information - all free!
I'm totally agree. Moreover, the changes which Henry describes do not really prevent non-paying members from answering kudoZ questions. CMJ_Trans stated that he is fond of helping others -- it's OK, I see nothing which would prevent him from helping answerers in the future, after the changes are implemented. But if the goal is not only to help but also to be visible for potential clients due to a high rating in kudoZ leaders lists (which is also perfectly OK, since most of us earn their livings by translation) this is business, competition, or, at least, a sport for feeling good about your own skills -- and these, naturally, require some input (going platinum to pay for the benefits or the pleasure). Frankly speaking, I think that CMJ is discouraged by the changes in leaders charts, first of all. My sincere apologies if I'm wrong, but I'm inclined to follow Konstantin's plain way of speaking. Yes, this IS a discrimination because each proZian makes a choice whether to go platinum or not, and this must be a choice of a mature adult. If I feel that I need some benefits I pay for it - for me, it's obvious that most kinds of pleasure or business benefits cannot be free.
[Edited at 2005-04-20 09:50]
| | | | CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 18:40
French to English
+ ...
| don't put words into my mouth that weren't there | Apr 20, 2005 |
Konstantin Kisin wrote: CMJ_Trans wrote:
Never forget that is volunteers such as myself, and others of similar ilk, that help keep your business going. Of course, the input provided by non-platinum members is immense and nobody will dispute that, but to somehow equate that with "volunteering" and being more helpful to the website than the hard cash platinum members dish out is a little amusing, for want of a better word.
CMJ: I said "....that help to keep your business going" (business = site). I can well imagine the economics behind the site and would never claim it would collapse if the "volunteers" deserted the ship. Also I have to take you to task on your interpretation of the word "volunteers". You have neatly made it sound purely pejorative and that was not how I meant it at all! Volunteers are people who do things free-of-charge to help others with no ulterior motives of their own. Full Stop!
At all events, all this looks likely to help me kill the Proz habit and that could well be a blessing in disguise.
Last but not least, if I have no intention of "going Platinum" it is because I never bid for jobs and never will do for reasons that you don't have to know...
No disrespect but some things are private..
I answer (loads of) questions because I am basically helpful and that way I can ask the odd question in return .
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CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 18:40
French to English
+ ...
| leader board change | Apr 20, 2005 |
Kirill Semenov wrote: [ Frankly speaking, I think that CMJ is discouraged by the changes in leaders charts, first of all. My sincere apologies if I'm wrong, but I'm inclined to follow Konstantin's plain way of speaking. Yes, this IS a discrimination because each proZian makes a choice whether to go platinum or not, and this must be a choice of a mature adult. If I feel that I need some benefits I pay for it - for me, it's obvious that most kinds of pleasure or business benefits cannot be free. [Edited at 2005-04-20 09:50]
CMJ: Frankly my dear, I couldn't give a damn (in the words of Rhett Butler) about the leader boards. For a while I was way up there but, as I explained on an earlier forum, that was because I was trying to prove a point. I find the whole thing a bit of a joke. I repeat: I seem to have this mad need to help other translators do a better job and, to judge by some of the questions, there are a huge lot of people out there who need a huge amount of help. I am a stickler for professional standards.
The change proposed at this point would not affect me really at the end of the day. My concern is that this will prove to be the thin end of the wedge: all men are equal but some are more equal than others, as someone once said!
Sorry, Henry, but I cannot justify the expense of Platinum membership simply because I do not need to bid for jobs(remember, I came to this site as a client and not as a service provider). Unless my life changes radically (my pension funds all go bust or whatever!), I cannot see the point in my particular case but I'm pretty sure there are lots of others out there who feel the same.
| | | | | Proz is a resource beyond just jobs | Apr 20, 2005 |
Konstantin Kisin wrote:
I think it's actually Henry and his team who are volunteers, providing you with a free service.
Thank you, Konstantin. I couldn't agree more. Actually, that's Henry, the site staff *and* paying members.
I did get one large job from Proz.com when I started out in 2002. Since then absolutely none of my work has come through bidding on the site (low rates, fly-by-night agencies, the usual reasons).
However, Proz is a valuable resource beyond just jobs (networking, terminology help, general technical help) so I continue to pay for Platinum membership to support the site.
Anything the site can do to boost the presence and visibility of Platinum members is fine by me. Hopefully, continued efforts in this direction will keep the site from becoming a clearinghouse for fast, cheap labor.
Time to get back to work (on well-paid jobs not found through Proz but with the help and support of the Proz community).
Regards,
Sara
[Edited at 2005-04-20 10:12]
| | | | | Thanks for using the site, CMJ_Trans | Apr 20, 2005 |
CMJ_Trans wrote:
Last but not least, if I have no intention of "going Platinum" it is because I never bid for jobs and never will do for reasons that you don't have to know...
No disrespect but some things are private..
I answer (loads of) questions because I am basically helpful and that way I can ask the odd question in return.
This is all fair, in fact it is because of people such as you that we welcome non-paying members, too.
So not to beat a dead horse, but you still clearly misunderstand what platinum membership is about. To dispel a commonly held misconception, "bidding on jobs" is *not* one of the top reasons people go platinum at ProZ.com. "Getting more exposure" is one of several reason people cite for going platinum, but I would venture to say that most platinum members have never quoted in response to a posted job. The directory (ordered by KudoZ points!) is the better source of new clients. Not to mention all the other reasons people go platinum that have nothing to do with meeting new clients.
Anyway, enough said. Thanks for using the site!
| | | | Kirill Semenov
Ukraine
Local time: 19:40
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
| The difference | Apr 20, 2005 |
CMJ_Trans wrote:
The change proposed at this point would not affect me really at the end of the day. My concern is that this will prove to be the thin end of the wedge: all men are equal but some are more equal than others, as someone once said!
I believe it was George Orwell in his "1984", but this is not the point. When you come to a restaurant you cannot complain that they don't give you any meal if you don't pay. You may call giving meal only to those who pay for it a "discrimination", but -- back to Orwell -- this is not a communistic society. As Konstantin pointed out, we have to be very grateful for the opportunity to participate and enjoy incredibly good ***free*** services which proZ provides to non-paying members. Just try to look at it from another point of view: a great many things here are ***free***. Enjoy them! There is a lot of other translator directories in the Web where they get a buck from you for any stupid and useless "benefit". I was a non-paying member for quite a long time, but in the past I always supported any changes which promoted going platinum. Believe me, it was no so simply for me even to transfer money for the platinum membership, but I did as soon as I could -- both because I thought it was a perfect investment and because I felt I had to pay somehow for the great pleasure I had at kudoZ and forums.
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Jane Griffiths (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:40
Italian to English
| Keeping experienced non-platinum participants | Apr 20, 2005 |
I naturally support anything which helps me to find good new customers who pay reasonable rates and offer work with a reasonable deadline.
At the same time I also find Kudoz useful as a terminology tool and have found that some of the most expert answerers of terminology questions are not platinum members. Either, like CMJ_Trans, they are not in a situation where this is relevant to them, or they are freelancers whose rates are considerably higher than those paid for any work likel... See more I naturally support anything which helps me to find good new customers who pay reasonable rates and offer work with a reasonable deadline.
At the same time I also find Kudoz useful as a terminology tool and have found that some of the most expert answerers of terminology questions are not platinum members. Either, like CMJ_Trans, they are not in a situation where this is relevant to them, or they are freelancers whose rates are considerably higher than those paid for any work likely to be advertised on proz.com at the moment. It would be a great loss to our community if experienced translators were to be discouraged from participation by any future developments.
I hope that CMJ_Trans will stay with us, because I have found your answers useful. The same goes for several other experienced contributors who are not here to look for work. They should not have to pay a membership fee in order to contribute their expertise for free.
[Edited at 2005-04-20 10:30] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | very off-topic | Apr 20, 2005 |
Henry wrote:
The directory (ordered by KudoZ points!) is the better source of new clients.
Yes, very true, even more so with the new directory.
| | | | | We still take credit | Apr 20, 2005 |
Sara Freitas-Maltaverne wrote:
Time to get back to work (on well-paid jobs not found through Proz but with the help and support of the Proz community).
That is exactly the point, Sara. But just so you know, when you meet good clients through your ProZ.com network, we do still claim credit , even if it is not by way of job posting (and it usually isn't). We see our job as facilitating the networking. That's why things like clickable names matter.
| | | | CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 18:40
French to English
+ ...
Jane Griffiths wrote:
I hope that CMJ_Trans will stay with us, because I have found your answers useful. The same goes for several other experienced contributors who are not here to look for work. They should not have to pay a membership fee in order to contribute their expertise for free.
[Edited at 2005-04-20 10:30]
Glad to be of help - after so many years working in languages, I feel I would be churlish not to share some of the knowledge I have managed to acquire
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lien
Netherlands
Local time: 18:40
English to French
+ ...
| CMJ don't go ! | Apr 20, 2005 |
Please, don't go, you know why.
| | | | | sober-minded | Apr 20, 2005 |
Folks, please wait until you all see what this new feature is about before making rash emotional judgments as to its benefits (and perceived disadvantages). Absolutely no one is planning to curtail anyone's access to Kudoz. No one is driving people away or discouraging participation.
Members who profess altruism as the sole motivator in contributing are always welcome. No one is denying them the arena where they can share their talents. Talk about cults and discouragement is totall... See more Folks, please wait until you all see what this new feature is about before making rash emotional judgments as to its benefits (and perceived disadvantages). Absolutely no one is planning to curtail anyone's access to Kudoz. No one is driving people away or discouraging participation.
Members who profess altruism as the sole motivator in contributing are always welcome. No one is denying them the arena where they can share their talents. Talk about cults and discouragement is totally unnecessary and tangential.
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| | | | | To pay or not to pay | Apr 20, 2005 |
Jane Griffiths wrote:
I naturally support anything which helps me to find good new customers who pay reasonable rates and offer work with a reasonable deadline.
At the same time I also find Kudoz useful as a terminology tool and have found that some of the most expert answerers of terminology questions are not platinum members. Either, like CMJ_Trans, they are not in a situation where this is relevant to them, or they are freelancers whose rates are considerably higher than those paid for any work likely to be advertised on proz.com at the moment. It would be a great loss to our community if experienced translators were to be discouraged from participation by any future developments.
I hope that CMJ_Trans will stay with us, because I have found your answers useful. The same goes for several other experienced contributors who are not here to look for work. They should not have to pay a membership fee in order to contribute their expertise for free.
[Edited at 2005-04-20 10:30]
I'm with Jane on this one (and just like her, I have a platinum membership). I also hope CMJ_Trans and others will not abondon ship. If they do, there will be little point in me continuing with my platinum membership. Just like CMJ_Trans I do not come to the website for jobs (I think I got 2 or 3 jobs through the bidding system in the 5 years I've been around here). The information from the forums is great but I can also get it from somewhere else. Exposure is great but again I can hardly cope with the workload I have got so less exposure might be beneficial. The thing that does it for me is the glossaries (and the KudoZ system). I also have an intense dislike of forcing people to take a decision that they do not want to take. It's not cricket!
What about all those people who cannot become platinum members because of the country they live in (no credit card facilities and such)?
I thought the whole point was that:
ProZ.com is a workplace used by translators, interpreters, translation agencies and their clients to meet and do work.
The following springs to mind to misquote Orwell:
“All pigs are created equal, except some pigs are less equal than others"
I am not a happy bunny! Or should I say pig? I feel extremely uncomfortable about how things are going at ProZ.
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