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Number of questions permitted per day - clarification requested
Thread poster: Fiona Grace Peterson

Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:06
Member
Italian to English
Aug 7

I refer to Site Rule #2.6:

"There is a limit to the number of "help" KudoZ questions that can be posted per day and per week.
Limits are automatically imposed based on an asker's membership condition. Taking steps to bypass these limits is prohibited."

Can staff please elaborate on "Limits are automatically imposed based on an asker's membership condition"? It would seem that this limit, which was once ten questions per day, is now an ancient memory, with dozens of questions permitted per day by individual askers.

Thank you in advance.


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:06
Member (2008)
Italian to English
I agree Aug 7

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:

I refer to Site Rule #2.6:

"There is a limit to the number of "help" KudoZ questions that can be posted per day and per week.
Limits are automatically imposed based on an asker's membership condition. Taking steps to bypass these limits is prohibited."

Can staff please elaborate on "Limits are automatically imposed based on an asker's membership condition"? It would seem that this limit, which was once ten questions per day, is now an ancient memory, with dozens of questions permitted per day by individual askers.

Thank you in advance.


I agree. This rule seems to have come loose, like an old screw. Time to tighten things up again.


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Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:06
Member
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
In space, no-one can hear you scream Aug 7

Tom in London wrote:

This rule seems to have come loose, like an old screw.


Agree, Tom. Although more than "come loose", it seems to have burst, screeching, bloody and terrifying, through the site's chest, and scuttled off somewhere dank and impenetrable, to grow exponentially, terrorising the site's occupants until only one is left, or until someone decides enough is enough. Or maybe not. Jones! Jonesy! Here kitty!

Tom in London wrote:
Time to tighten things up again.


Agree, wholeheartedly. But I'm getting an awful sense of déjà vu.



[Edited at 2017-08-07 14:01 GMT]


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:06
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
From the FAQ Aug 7

2.5 - I tend to store up my term questions until the end of a project. Is there any way I can get around the limit?

We believe that the limit of fifteen (15) per day should be high enough for most people. By spreading your questions over the last two days of a project, for example, you can ask thirty (30). If you need more and are a member, you can ask a Support staff to grant a temporary exemption.


http://www.proz.com/faq/2815#2815


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Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:06
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Old thread in which Enrique explains how the limit works Aug 7

http://www.proz.com/forum/kudoz/121312-addition_to_kudoz_asker_mouseover_questions_closed_without_grading.html#997411

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Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:06
Member
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
NSFW Aug 7

By spreading your questions over the last two days of a project, for example, you can ask thirty (30). If you need more and are a member, you can ask a Support staff to grant a temporary exemption.


http://www.proz.com/faq/2815#2815

Thank you Katalin.

Well, well, well. I shall abstain from giving my opinion on such "temporary exemptions" - there may be children reading.

[Edited at 2017-08-07 14:44 GMT]


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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:06
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Which raises the question..... Aug 7

...why is there a limit at all? Isn't the whole thing completely pointless?

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Alejandro Cavalitto
Local time: 12:06
SITE STAFF
Exemptions are an exceptional measure Aug 7

Hello,

As Katalin points out (thank you!) temporary exemptions can be granted to site members exceptionally. You are referring to such a situation. This is an exception, the limit still applies in general.

Hope this explains. Please let me know if you have any question.

Best regards,
Alejandro


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Mervyn Henderson  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 16:06
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
Children reading ... Aug 7

Love it!!!

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Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:06
Member
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Precisely Aug 7

Tom in London wrote:

...why is there a limit at all? Isn't the whole thing completely pointless?


At this point, the site surely needs to make a decision. Rise to Paradise, and reinstate proper limits on the number of term questions that can be asked within a certain period, or descend to Hell, throwing open its gates and making the site a bona fide free-for-all to all comers. Because right now we seem to be stuck in some kind of Purgatory.

"Live term translations from professional translators: KudoZ™
KudoZ™ provides professional translators, and others, with a way to solicit and share translation help on terms that are too new or specialized to appear in most glossaries or dictionaries. A point system adds enjoyment and rewards participating translators with improved directory position in their fields of expertise."
http://www.proz.com/about/overview/terminology

"Terms that are too new or specialized to appear in most glossaries or dictionaries."

Maybe this could be a good starting point for preventing abuse of the system?


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Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:06
Member
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
Different dictionaries? Aug 7

Alejandro Cavalitto wrote:

As Katalin points out (thank you!) temporary exemptions can be granted to site members exceptionally. You are referring to such a situation. This is an exception, the limit still applies in general.



Thank you Alejandro for your input.

But examining the profile of the site user which triggered this discussion, the following picture emerges. Counted on seven different days between the beginning of July and today, the number of queries made on a single day includes values such as 22, 29, 31, 32 and 33, peaking at 46 on one day earlier this month.

Is this what Proz defines as "temporary" and "exception"?

[Edited at 2017-08-07 15:48 GMT]


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writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Well, 46 questions in one day IS an (exceptional) exception. Aug 7

Fiona Grace Peterson wrote:

Alejandro Cavalitto wrote:

As Katalin points out (thank you!) temporary exemptions can be granted to site members exceptionally. You are referring to such a situation. This is an exception, the limit still applies in general.



Thank you Alejandro for your input.

But examining the profile of the site user which triggered this discussion, the following picture emerges. Counted on seven different days between the beginning of July and today, the number of queries made on a single day includes values such as 22, 29, 31, 32 and 33, peaking at 46 on one day earlier this month.

Is this what Proz defines as "temporary" and "exception"?

[Edited at 2017-08-07 15:38 GMT]


And speaks legions. I too would like to know what 'temporary' means. Until the end of a seemingly never-ending job? Or is it days/weeks/months?


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Tina Vonhof  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 08:06
Member (2006)
Dutch to English
+ ...
Set limit Aug 7

I think the old limit of 10 per day was perfectly reasonable. If you have more than 10 questions and it can't wait till tomorrow, you have accepted a document that is beyond both your knowledge of the target language and your searching skills. By the way, I have never seen anyone ask more than 10 questions in my language combination or they have spread them out over several days but I'm sure it can happen in some other languages.

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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:06
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
A pragmatic suggestion Aug 7

I agree with Fiona and Tom that stricter asking limits are in order for a site that advertises itself as a portal for professional translators. Alas, it is evident that this site has no interest in imposing limits beyond those already set, so I fear that any discussion along these lines will be a waste of time.

What proz.com might be willing to consider is eliminating daily limits while maintaining its current weekly and monthly limits. Surely 60 queries in a single week (even if they were all posted within 2-3 days) would be enough to assist anyone claiming to be professional who has taken on work for which he or she is minimally qualified. Being in a position of not being able to post a query for a few days (i.e., if someone blows their whole wad of 60 before the week is up) ought to serve as a prod to the translator to reflect on their work practices and professional goals.

Such a rule would eliminate the need for granting special exemptions while continuing to impose some limit.

Granting a very generous benefit of the doubt, it is at least feasible that someone might need to make 60 legitimate Kudoz queries within a single week. Yet it sounds like the circumstance referenced here involves consults of terms that could have been found with minimal effort in online dictionaries or other resources.

I personally don't understand (especially given the low rates for which they undoubtedly are working) how persons using Kudoz so intensively can manage to earn anything approaching an acceptable fee for their work. After all, it takes time to post each query (with accompanying context and explanation), evaluate the suggestions and comments received for each, and then grade them all afterward.

Leaving aside the (very legitimate) issues of ethics and professionalism, operating in this way seems very chaotic and unprofitable for the translator in question.

Even more fundamentally, it is hard to believe that anything approaching a professional translation can be produced with such a heavy reliance on crowdsourcing. After all, there is no guarantee that acceptable answers for any given query will be received - or that the asker is even capable of selecting the best answer in each and every instance (even with the help of "agrees").

Which takes us back to the subject of PROfessionalism.

[Edited at 2017-08-07 16:16 GMT]


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Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 16:06
Member
Italian to English
TOPIC STARTER
"Granting" of temporary exceptions Aug 7

Given the track record of the site member whose practices are under scrutiny here, another rather disturbing element emerges - the "granting" of temporary exemptions. Surely this begs the question as what the criteria are for the granting of such exemptions. If they are being "granted" so often, I see three possible reasons: a) the site is feeling exceptionally generous lately; b) the site actively encourages such practices; or c) the site doesn't actually "grant" such exemptions at all - people can simply post as many questions as they want.

Another interesting detail - the famous 29 queries mentioned earlier were all posted within the space of two minutes, obviously with blatant disregard for the sort of information that is encouraged by the system:

"Help translators help you: providing context for the term for which you are seeking help is a valuable tool for potential answerers. The more context you can provide for your term, the better help you will tend to receive. Consider including such information as: type of document/situation in which the term appears; country and dialect; target audience/country; specific context (the source sentence or paragraph where the term occurs); any reference URLs, translations you are considering, etc."


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