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Right to reclassify PRO / non-PRO, and squash, to be restored to non-moderator members. See Howtos.
Thread poster: Henry Dotterer

Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:44
SITE FOUNDER
May 9, 2005

Until a few weeks ago, non-moderator members who had earned at least 50 KudoZ points were able to reclassify KudoZ questions as PRO / non-PRO. They were also able to "squash" (ie. remove/hide) questions, and a variety of reasons were given for when this would be appropriate.

The right of non-moderators to do the above was temporarily suspended a few weeks ago. Recent changes and discussion had led to some confusion, and the decision was made to put a freeze on non-moderator editing until such time as more detailed guidelines could be produced for PRO/non-PRO classification and squashing.

Those guidelines have now been created, and are posted in two Howtos:

KudoZ - deciding whether a question is PRO or non-PRO: http://proz.com/howto/326

KudoZ - deciding when to squash a question: http://proz.com/howto/327

Members who wish to obtain the right to reclassify and squash questions are asked to read the above Howtos. If there is anything about these you do not understand, please ask in this thread so that clarification can be given. If the discussions suggest that the Howtos are clear enough, we will provide a means for members with at least 50 KudoZ points (PRO level) to obtain the right to edit. Part of the "application" process will be indicating an understanding and acceptance of the quidelines in the above Howtos.


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Mikhail Kropotov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:44
Member (2005)
English to Russian
+ ...
The concept is becoming more and more developed. May 9, 2005

Looks like this could work indeed!

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Kirill Semenov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 22:44
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
My suggestions... May 9, 2005

1) To get rid of `Pro/non-Pro' difference at all. It brings confusion. My personal opinion is that the simplest questions like `I love you' are better to be squahed or to be moved to another site designed for such simple questions.

2) If to keep the division, then questions from any regitered proZ members ought to be `Pro' by definition. At the same time, we have to keep the voting system for reclassifying `non-Pro' questions as `Pro'. Yest another approach may be to mark questions as `Pro' if they are asked by registered members and `non-Pro' if a question is asked by an outsider. In this case, only registered members' questions may give kudoZ points. Otherwise it's a non-point question (again, there is no need to discriminate between `Pro' and `non-Pro' questions at all; only registered members' questions give points).

3) Squash and switching `Pro/non-Pro'.
I would propose to raise the threshold of the right to do such changes. Unlike two years ago, now 1000 kudoZ points is quite an average achievement, and to get into Top 100 of the site a person needs much more than 4000 points. I think that barriers 1000 points for the right to switch questions between Pro/non-Pro and to squash a question is fair enough. Anyway, nowadays switching `Pro/non-Pro' is more important for members' visibility than squashing, so maybe the threshold should be much higher than 50 points.

4) In any way, the notifications about changing the approach to `Pro/non-Pro' ideology and squashing option has to be sent to every member personally -- so that people know about it. The changes are no less important than the monthly proZ.com letter.

[Edited at 2005-05-09 19:04]


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xxxMihai Badea  Identity Verified
Luxembourg
Member (2004)
English to Romanian
+ ...
50 or 500 KudoZ points for the right to remove questions? May 9, 2005

Henry, there seems to be an inconsistency between the two Howtos, as to the number of points we need for the right to squash questions.

“ProZ.com members who have earned at least 50 PRO KudoZ points are eligible to apply for the right to edit questions ('editing' includes reclassifying questions as PRO/non-PRO, correcting errors in language settings, and removing ("squashing") questions for various reasons). To apply, go to this page: Application for right to edit (not yet available)”

“Who can remove questions?

ProZ.com members who have earned at least 500 KudoZ points are presumed to have become familiar with the KudoZ rules and culture. These members, and also a group of approximately 100 designated site moderators, have also been given the right to remove certain questions for specific reasons.”

Otherwise, I think it's great to have the two functions back.


[Edited at 2005-05-09 19:08]


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Claudia Iglesias  Identity Verified
Chile
Local time: 17:44
Member (2002)
Spanish to French
+ ...
Question has already received an acceptable answer May 9, 2005

What happens when a "Question has already received an acceptable answer" but the question is not valid (i.e. should have been squashed for any of the others reasons?).

Claudia


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Robert Donahue  Identity Verified
Russian to English
+ ...
Looks great, thank you! May 9, 2005

This should go a long way toward alleviating the complaints. I read both documents completely and the only question I have is the 50/500 point threshold. At 500 points we can squash, but do we still need to apply to reclass pro/non-pro?

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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:44
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Responses to Kirill May 9, 2005

Kirill wrote:

1) To get rid of `Pro/non-Pro' difference at all. It brings confusion.


Two facts:
(1) Some of our members want to see the non-PRO questions and some don't
(2) Even if we created another site, or take other measures, a non-PRO question might still be asked.

Given these facts, I see no reason not to keep both the distinction and the ability to reclassify (and perhaps try to create a situation in which it is rarely needed.)

Also, since the situation has been better with PRO/non-PRO (formerly "easy") classification than it was without, I would not be inclined to get rid of the classifications.

2) If to keep the division, then questions from any regitered proZ members ought to be `Pro' by definition. At the same time, we have to keep the voting system for reclassifying `non-Pro' questions as `Pro'. Yest another approach may be to mark questions as `Pro' if they are asked by registered members and `non-Pro' if a question is asked by an outsider. In this case, only registered members' questions may give kudoZ points. Otherwise it's a non-point question (again, there is no need to discriminate between `Pro' and `non-Pro' questions at all; only registered members' questions give points).


This is more or less how the system works, in effect. While points are granted for non-PRO questions, they do not get used in places like the directory or leaderboards.

And non-logged-in askers can only ask non-PRO, and logged-in askers ask PRO by default.

3) Squash and switching `Pro/non-Pro'.
I would propose to raise the threshold of the right to do such changes. Unlike two years ago, now 1000 kudoZ points is quite an average achievement...


The reason for any threshhold is to ensure sufficient familiarity. If the number is to be changed, it should be changed on that basis. It does not hurt to have many editors, as long as they all are editing according to the guidelines. I don't see that the ability to do this will change much between 50 points and 500... but please let me hear if you feel otherwise.

4) In any way, the notifications about changing the approach to `Pro/non-Pro' ideology and squashing option has to be sent to every member personally -- so that people know about it. The changes are no less important than the monthly proZ.com letter.


Good point. We will send out another notice in the next newsletter. Thanks!


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:44
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Apply judgment if invalid question has been answered May 9, 2005

Claudia Iglesias wrote:

What happens when a "Question has already received an acceptable answer" but the question is not valid (i.e. should have been squashed for any of the others reasons?).


I suppose judgment would be called for in those cases. I suggest members defer to moderators on that (and that moderators discuss with fellow mods if necessary).


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:44
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
There will be a way for people with 50 points to apply for both May 9, 2005

Robert Donahue wrote:

This should go a long way toward alleviating the complaints. I read both documents completely and the only question I have is the 50/500 point threshold. At 500 points we can squash, but do we still need to apply to reclass pro/non-pro?


Both forms of editing will require one to apply. The threshhold for both will be 50 points (unless people would be for a higher limit).


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Henry Dotterer
Local time: 15:44
SITE FOUNDER
TOPIC STARTER
Thanks, Mihai! May 9, 2005

Mihai Badea wrote:

Henry, there seems to be an inconsistency between the two Howtos, as to the number of points we need for the right to squash questions.


Thanks! I made them both 50, pending any discussion to the contrary.


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Amy Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:44
Italian to English
+ ...
:-) May 9, 2005

Thanks!

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Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 02:14
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
The threshold should be set language wise May 10, 2005

In my opinion, the threshold for allowing editing privileges of kudoz questions should be set language wise. In some languages like English or German it is quite easy to earn 50 or 500 kudoz points, because a very large number of questions are asked and answered. But in some of the languages that are less frequently used in the kudoz forum, Hindi for example, at the most a couple of questions are asked in a week. In such cases, there wouldn't be many in the proz.com database for these languages who have the threshold limit of kudoz points.

I suggest that instead of fixing the kudoz threshold at 50 (or 500) kudoz points, fix it as the top 10 (or 50) kudoz earners in each language pair.


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Robert Donahue  Identity Verified
Russian to English
+ ...
First off, thank you Henry... May 10, 2005

I'm impressed with the attention to detail. You and your staff are to be commended. I don't see any issue with the 50/500 rule (although Balasubramaniam's suggestion for lower frequency languages is a good one if that's workable.) I anxiously await the opportunity to fill out the forms.

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Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 02:14
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
Kudoz and non-Kudoz May 10, 2005

Krill wrote:

If to keep the division, then questions from any regitered ProZ.com members ought to be `Pro' by definition. At the same time, we have to keep the voting system for reclassifying `non-Pro' questions as `Pro'. Yest another approach may be to mark questions as `Pro' if they are asked by registered members and `non-Pro' if a question is asked by an outsider. In this case, only registered members' questions may give KudoZ points. Otherwise it's a non-point question (again, there is no need to discriminate between `Pro' and `non-Pro' questions at all; only registered members' questions give points).


In that case, a better nomenclature would be simply to label the questions as kudoz and non-kudoz, that is, those that earn kudoz points and those that don't. We can then escape the hair-splitting involved in deciding what is a pro question and what is not.


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Balasubramaniam L.  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 02:14
Member (2006)
English to Hindi
+ ...
Are askers the right persons to grade questions May 10, 2005

Claudia Iglesias wrote:

What happens when a "Question has already received an acceptable answer" but the question is not valid (i.e. should have been squashed for any of the others reasons?).

Claudia


My point is related to the issue that Claudia has raised.

If the kudoz answers are only meant for helping out translators in trouble, then this (that is, questions being graded by the asker) is probably a fine mechanism, for who else is better positioned to evaluate which of the answers helped most, but when these answers also enter into the glossary, then that is a different case altogether. First the very fact that the asker had to bring the question before the kudoz forum indicates that he does not understand it, and if he does not understand it, is he in a position to evaluate which of the answers submitted most correctly conveys the meaning of the term under question?

The following example will clarify:

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1026807

Was kudoz awarded to the best answer in this case?

Shouldn't there be some mechanism whereby the questions and the answers are scrutinized before taking them into the permanent repository?

My suggestion: Let the questions with their answers remain on the kudoz network for say one month after it has been graded, after that it should be taken off and reveiwed by a panel which would modify, reject, or accept as it is, the grading given by the asker. Only after the panel has finished with the question will it find entry into a permanent repository and become visible again.

With the number of questions asked on the kudoz network exceeding one million, this may just not be possible, but that does not obviate the necessity of such an arrangement.


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Right to reclassify PRO / non-PRO, and squash, to be restored to non-moderator members. See Howtos.

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