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Who Needs The Natives II: Advertising copy
Thread poster: IanW (X)
Marc P (X)
Marc P (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:02
German to English
+ ...
Who Needs The Natives II: Advertising copy Oct 11, 2005

Anjo Sterringa wrote:

it is very easy not to address the point somebody is trying to make, but start complaining about the poster's command of English.


Anjo,

That is correct, in principle. But in this particular case, the poster's command of English *was* the very point of discussion.

If I were, in the Dutch forum, to mention in very broken Dutch that I translate into Dutch and intend to continue to do so, en dat kan ik 'tuurlijk ook, want ik heb zo'n drie jaar in A'dam geleeft, en als je dat niet leuk vindt, dan heb je vooroordelen - how do you think your fellow Dutch-speakers would respond? If they all fell of their chairs in sync, they'd create a tsunami. For goodness' sake! A good proportion of the profession in NL won't even entertain the idea of Dutch-speaking Belgians translating into Dutch.

This is not a question of "native" versus "non-native". Target-language ability, like source-language comprehension, subject knowledge, and other skills, needs to be considered on its own merits. Your English is excellent and I personally would have no quarrel with your describing it as "native-speaker level". The question is then whether that alone is adequate for a particular task. But that, of course, applies to all of us - natives as well.

Marc


 
RobinB
RobinB  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:02
German to English
Can't win? Oct 11, 2005

Anjo Sterringa wrote:
I would like to recommend Danilo Nogeira's article:


Danilo's wrong there on almost every point, I'm afraid.

- If you translate into a foreign language, your style will be non-native.

That is certainly true in probably 99% of cases.

- If you translate into your own language, you'll miss the point of the original.

That assumes you haven't understood the original. If you have, then you won't.

- If you live abroad, your native language will get a bit rusty,

Not at all. You may well be out-of-touch with the demotic of 19 year-olds called Darren from Essex, but there's no cause whatsoever to be "rusty" in the LSP areas in which you translate.

- and you'll never write the foreign language like a real native does.

Only a fool would attempt that in the first place (OK, there *are* a lot of fools around, I admit).

- If you are a translator, you'll fail to grasp the fine technical points of the original or to convey them to the reader using the appropriate language.

Not if you're a specialist.

- If you are a non-translator you should be doing your thing, not translating, because you do not know how to translate.

The majority of people translating today are "non-translators", as it happens. Doesn't seem to stop them from trying. Or even from styling themselves as translators.

- If you do not have a degree, you lack the necessary theoretical foundation.

How come?

- If you have a degree, you lack the necessary practice.

Duh?

- You can't win.

Course you can. Good, professional translators "win" every day.



[Edited at 2005-10-11 15:17]


 
Marc P (X)
Marc P (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:02
German to English
+ ...
Who Needs The Natives II: Advertising copy Oct 12, 2005

RobinB wrote:

Danilo's wrong there on almost every point, I'm afraid.


Danilo was paraphrasing others. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought his point was that it is silly to define competence by such crude rules.

Marc


 
writeaway
writeaway  Identity Verified
French to English
+ ...
Who Needs The Natives Too? Oct 12, 2005

Francis Lee wrote:

As is evident from the various contributions here, this phenomenon is by no means limited to Germany.

Most of what I would have to say here has already been expressed by colleagues above.
Like Mikhail Kropotov, I am amazed at "how many non-native speakers of English claim to translate into English yet present a profile page that contains grammar and spelling mistakes". Indeed.

I say to those non-native sinners: where is your modesty?

...


First of all, it's most definitely not limited to Germany. Glance at the Nl-En site and you'll see it's easier to find Waldo than a native Anglo. 95% of questions are from non-natives and nearly the same percentage of answers are also supplied by non-natives. Native speakers are an added-extra and definitely not needed. The best of all possible worlds.
And I suspect that the Nl-En site is just the tip of the iceberg.

Modesty?
What these people are saying is that they have the same 'innate feeling' for English, or any other language they originally learned from a book, as they have for the language they were born into and grew up with. Do you see any room for modesty with such claims? Can you market anything with modesty? The main sales pitch is that their superior knowledge of the source text automatically transfers into superior translation skills into the foreign language. Their friends applaud, colleagues applaud, so why be modest. If you have it, flaunt it.

Just don't ask me, proofreader far removed from the inner circle of admirers. Last week,I spent 18 long hours in 2 days time "proofreading" a mistranslated MARKETING TEXT meant for publication.It was done by a native of the source text who lives in an English-speaking country. Mistranslations of even straightforward technical terms (what were actually awnings were translated as blinds. Plus all the usual mistakes: incorrect prepositions, verb tenses, phraseology, etc.
Worst of all-this marketing text was transferred straight from the dictionary-so it was dead in the water. The original was done by a professional copywriter and was excellent. But instead of creating an English equivalent, the translator or rather
"transferer" simply replaced the source text words with English words.The words were English, but the marketing text most certainly wasn't. It had been presented to the agency as a proofread document, ready for publication. But the agency owner (who is not native of either language)had doubts and asked me to take a 'quick look'. Famous last words.
If this was just a one-off situation, I wouldn't have mentioned it. Unfortunately in my experience, this has been the case 99% of the time when texts are done by non-natives (not just for marketing texts: legal and all the rest too) and it's why I normally refuse proofreading (ie re-translation) jobs.
Sorry, but from what I've seen on Proz/Kudoz and what I've experienced as a translator, it's clear that nothing but nothing replaces a translation done by a native speaker, no matter what the language. Even English.


[Edited at 2005-10-12 14:20]


 
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Who Needs The Natives II: Advertising copy






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