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Limiting agreement of people
Thread poster: Cristina Heraud-van Tol

Cristina Heraud-van Tol  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 15:51
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Nov 11, 2005

I sometimes don't understand it. A person asks a question and gets 5 completely different answers. Because agreeing with answers gives Browniz points, some people do that every day. But these people agree with all 5 different answers; how can that be? One answer has to be the best and the others are so-so or simply not good. It also confuses the ones who are asking because they see that a same person is agreeing with all answers. I suggest that PROZ sets a limit of only one question agreement per person (or perhaps maximumu two, if there's a quite similar alternative).

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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 13:51
English to Spanish
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You are the judge Nov 11, 2005

You judge the answer, you judge the credibility of those who answer and those who agree and disagree.

And you also check the answers out on your own before choosing. The choice is yours, but don't do it blindly, do it professionally, numbers don't mean a thing but your judgment does, make it count.


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poly
Italian to English
+ ...
agree vs new answer Nov 11, 2005

on that topic, i agreed to something the other day...with a clarification, that i thought kinda complemented the answer. however i got an 'agree' to the one i agreed to that implied they agreed with my clarification, not the original answer. in hindsight, the answer i was agreeing to.....wasnt as clear or as straightforward of an answer....

sometimes i dont know when to agree, and when to place my own answer....if my answer would be close....

what ends up happening is that 3 answers will be painfully similar, and i dont want to look greedy by placing an answer that is too similar to someone before me.

does that make sense?

is it better to just 'piggy back' someone elses?


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Sarah Brenchley  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:51
Spanish to English
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It's possible to agree with various answers Nov 11, 2005

Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:

One answer has to be the best and the others are so-so or simply not good. .


If only life (or translating for that matter) were that simple it would make things considerably easier. However, things aren't so black and white and it's possible for several answers to be correct taking into account register, context, etc. and so I think it's possible to agree with several answers. While some people might just be doing it for points, I think that on the whole most people agree to help the asker decide.


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Derek Gill Franßen  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 21:51
German to English
+ ...
A separate topic... Nov 11, 2005

lepetitpoly wrote:

on that topic, i agreed to something the other day...with a clarification, that i thought kinda complemented the answer. however i got an 'agree' to the one i agreed to that implied they agreed with my clarification, not the original answer. in hindsight, the answer i was agreeing to.....wasnt as clear or as straightforward of an answer....

sometimes i dont know when to agree, and when to place my own answer....if my answer would be close....

what ends up happening is that 3 answers will be painfully similar, and i dont want to look greedy by placing an answer that is too similar to someone before me.

does that make sense?

is it better to just 'piggy back' someone elses?



Hi Lepetitpoly, This sounds like it could make for an interesting topic of discussion. Why not post it separately and see what comes up?

BTW - As far as this topic is concerned, I think it is fine to agree or disagree with several or all of the suggestions, depending on what was suggested; sometimes there is more than one correct answer/explanation. In fact, I do so quite frequently. And I really don't know what to do with the thousands of Browniez I have amassed - except to make updating my Platinum membership a bit cheaper (which is actually pretty cool, now that I think about it again).

[Edited at 2005-11-11 14:21]


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NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 15:51
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
I've agreed with more than one answer Nov 11, 2005

Let me explain -

When I've agreed with more than one answer, it's because more than one answer was correct, and I am simply trying to help the asker understand the term giving him/her difficulty. It's to guide the asker to the correct understanding of the term, not to help him/her decide where to attribute points (to me, points are a secondary aspect of KudoZ, the first being to help the asker come up with the best possible translation of his/her text).


Hope this makes sense!

Nancy

PS TO DEREK: Yes, I think that's pretty cool, too.

N.

[Edited at 2005-11-11 15:30]


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Balaban Cerit  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 23:51
English to Turkish
+ ...
multiple agrees are quite normal Nov 11, 2005

Dear Cristina,

Depending on the field and the context, a term may have different meanings. So different answers can be true for some questions and none of them may be "the best". When people try to help the asker, they don't always list all the possible meanings of a term, so each day there are more than one good answer to some questions.

Of course it might be argued that a question asked in a proper context can't have that many different answers. But I have seen many questions asked without sufficient context. And even when there is sufficient context given as part of the question, there might be more than one good answer.

So, when people agree with multiple answers, their motive should not be regarded as only "grabbing Browniz points", they too are trying to help the asker.


[Edited at 2005-11-11 16:52]


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 21:51
Italian to English
+ ...
How about limiting the number of "agrees" to a single answer? Nov 11, 2005

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen 10 or 12 agrees to the same answer - let's face it, in the vast majority of cases they really serve no purpose, people seem to be doing it only for the brownies. How about limting the number of "agrees" to 5 per suggestion? In the extremely rare case that two answers both get 5 net agrees, you've almost certainly got two valid answers anyway (at least in my language pair, perhaps others are different) and the asker can be left to choose which one best fits the context.

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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:51
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
When there have been several options offered, it makes no sense to agree to more than one Nov 11, 2005

I can understand agreeing to an answer to a given question, then later seeing what one considers a better answer to that question, and agreeing with the later answer (in which case I think it appropriate to acknowledge the previous agreement by writing something like "I think XXX works better....")

What I do not understand, and what I think defeats the purpose of "agreeing", is when someone agrees at once with all four, five, six answers already offered. The point is to choose the best answer: it is choosing the best answer which helps the asker make a decision. Choosing two or more answers (with the above caveat duly noted) is really of no help at all.

That's my view.


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gad
United States
Local time: 15:51
Member
French to English
Interesting idea Nov 13, 2005

Cristina Heraud-van Tol wrote:

I sometimes don't understand it. A person asks a question and gets 5 completely different answers. Because agreeing with answers gives Browniz points, some people do that every day. But these people agree with all 5 different answers; how can that be? One answer has to be the best and the others are so-so or simply not good. It also confuses the ones who are asking because they see that a same person is agreeing with all answers. I suggest that PROZ sets a limit of only one question agreement per person (or perhaps maximumu two, if there's a quite similar alternative).


Sure, why not limit the agrees to a maximum of 3? That makes sense.


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gad
United States
Local time: 15:51
Member
French to English
I disagree Nov 13, 2005

Marie-Helene Hayles wrote:

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen 10 or 12 agrees to the same answer - let's face it, in the vast majority of cases they really serve no purpose, people seem to be doing it only for the brownies. How about limting the number of "agrees" to 5 per suggestion? In the extremely rare case that two answers both get 5 net agrees, you've almost certainly got two valid answers anyway (at least in my language pair, perhaps others are different) and the asker can be left to choose which one best fits the context.


No, I disagree with this. I should be able to "agree" with an answer, no matter how many others have already "agreed". I don't live on this site, and what if the answer is posted when I am asleep (i.e., when others in another time zone are awake)? Does that mean that only the first 5 should be able to agree? What if I have a comment to add that the others do not?

I see no reason to limit this.


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NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 15:51
Member (2002)
French to English
+ ...

MODERATOR
Main goal is to help the Asker Nov 13, 2005

gad wrote:
What if I have a comment to add that the others do not?

I see no reason to limit this.


Exactly - that comment may contain the link or the spark that the Asker needs for his/her context.

Nancy


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Robert Forstag  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 15:51
Member (2003)
Spanish to English
+ ...
Two different issues Nov 13, 2005

Gad wrote:

What if I have a comment to add that the others do not?

I see no reason to limit this.

Nancy replied:

Exactly - that comment may contain the link or the spark that the Asker needs for his/her context.

Comment:

This is really an entirely different matter from that of either: 1.) agreeing to an answer that 25 other persons have already agreed to or, worse, as Christina and I point out, 2.) the phenomenon of a single person agreeing to two or more very different answers to a single question. The first practice is pointless and the second unhelpful and, dare I say, unprofessional.

As for cases where one thinks s/he has a helpful comment to provide, this can be done by using the "Ask the asker" option.

Bob


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Cristina Heraud-van Tol  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 15:51
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Some people went to another subject... Nov 13, 2005

Hi, everybody. Thanks for your answers, pro and against. There are all sorts of points of view, but I just wanted to focus on my original comment. The point was, that time ago I asked a question, true is that it was a difficult one; but the thing is that, to my question, I got answers like "it means on, active", and also like "means off, inactive", so 2 completely different answers (opposites in this case)! Later on, people started agreeing and then you saw that some agreed with the meaning of "on" and the same people agreed with "off". In this case, you see clearly that they are doing it only for the Browniz. At the end, I even got more confused and finally obtained my answer ("on, active") by looking at thousands of other sources. It didn't happen only then, it happens constantly all the time as I check some of the questions of other colleagues. You simply cannot agree with everything! Helping the asker is one thing, but confusing him in such way is another...

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Balaban Cerit  Identity Verified
Turkey
Local time: 23:51
English to Turkish
+ ...
maybe this problem could be solved in a different way Nov 13, 2005

Dear Cristina,

I understand you very well. It is queer to agree with opposing answers for questions that have only one clear answer. In this case, people agreeing with more than one answer can be unhelpful indeed. I do not know what can be done to prevent this without harming the overall KudoZ system, since there are different situations too, as exampled just below.

I was thinking of this type of question when I wrote my initial message above:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1171129

There are a significant number of questions that are asked in such an ambiguous way. Such questions do not have perfect answers within the given context. And people can and do agree with more than one answer.

Or take this question:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/1172663

It is obvious that there is more than one correct answer to this question. And that is quite natural. It is a rare occasion that an answerer can find the time and opportunity to list all possible alternatives to such questions.

Since the main objective in the KudoZ system is to help the asker, agreeing with more than one answer can be helpful to the asker in such cases.

So I think that, instead of limiting agreement options in the general KudoZ system, such people misusing the system could be warned by moderator(s). Especially if there is a systematic pattern of misuse of the system as you say.


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