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Record number of disagrees in one day
Thread poster: Fred Neild
Fred Neild  Identity Verified
English to Spanish
+ ...
Dec 29, 2005

Maybe an alert should be triggered so that moderators are warned when a member gets 10 disagrees in one day (I haven't counted them).
This would avoid professional translators getting angry and expelled from the site because some amateur gets carried away.
Sometimes it is unbelievable. We all make mistakes but, come on... KudoZ may be a game (I don't know) but for members knowledgeable in specific pairs and subjects according to KudoZ rules, right?


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Kirill Semenov  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 14:11
Member (2004)
English to Russian
+ ...
Great idea! Dec 29, 2005

Hi Fred,

I think it would be great to implement the following format:

at any perer comment it's possible to show the general number of disgarees/neutral/agrees. Also, it would be great to show the ratio of the particular member for the the particular answerer.
For example: " These member gave to this answerer X agrees, Y neutrals and Z disagrees".

It will help to solve the issue of chronical disagreers and many personal problems in kudoZ.


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 06:11
German to English
KudoZ points hunters gone wild Dec 29, 2005

Hi, Fred. Some people are so addicted to KudoZ (as a game) that they'll answer anything that moves, no matter what the language pair is or whether they have even the slightest understanding of the subject. They do great harm to the reputation of KudoZ. The fact is, however, that moderators do step in when things get way out of hand, and the other powerful quality control tool available to all members is the "disagree" tool.
P.S. are you talking about the disagreers or the people who get disagrees?

[Edited at 2005-12-29 18:53]


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Fred Neild  Identity Verified
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Today I am a chronical disagreer Dec 29, 2005

I don't think moderators have to wait until things get out of hand.
I don't see why I should stop KudoZing today so I don't start a personal argument with a member because he is participating in a pair in which he is not proficient (at all), and he is driving me (and other translators) crazy.
We all have bad days but this person has amateur visible language problems in the pair he is participating.


[Edited at 2005-12-29 21:07]


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 06:11
German to English
KudoZ Dec 29, 2005

If you haven't already, please do contact a moderator assigned to your language pair.

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Fred Neild  Identity Verified
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
Automatic triggering Dec 29, 2005

Kirill
I am not sure if we are saying the same thing, today I am the bad guy, but I swear it is for a good reason.
: )

Kim Metzger wrote:

If you haven't already, please do contact a moderator assigned to your language pair.


I have tried that in the past and I have found out that at the forum at least somebody answers me.

And that is why I believe there should be some automatic triggering of moderators in these cases.

[Edited at 2005-12-29 19:12]


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xxxPaul Roige
Spain
Local time: 13:11
English to Spanish
+ ...
Moderator not needed Dec 29, 2005

Fred Neild wrote:

Maybe an alert should be triggered so that moderators are warned when a member gets 10 disagrees in one day (I haven't counted them).
This would avoid professional translators getting angry and expelled from the site because some amateur gets carried away.
Sometimes it is unbelievable. We all make mistakes but, come on... KudoZ may be a game (I don't know) but for members knowledgeable in specific pairs and subjects according to KudoZ rules, right?


IMO, members have the right, perhaps the duty, to "moderate" bad replies by using the agree/neutral/disagree button. This is a powerful tool that helps the poster understand and eventually select the most accurate answer. It also helps the community to eventually (or earlier) weed out those who don't have a clue. Runaway kudoz hunters do get the message and, in cases, egg all over. The red letters (along with a convincing explanation) are quite a solid hint.
Therefore, professional translators need not, should not, get angry, but respectfully channel their emotions via the (dis)agree tool, display their expertise to the world by explaining why they disagree, and rest their case.
Moderators should only step in if things (emotions) get out of hand and/or rules are broken. That's all we can, should, and are expected to do —regardless of our personal views on specific matters.
Regards
Paul


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Fred Neild  Identity Verified
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Moderators should be preemptive in these cases Dec 29, 2005

Paul Roigé wrote:
Therefore, professional translators need not, should not, get angry, but respectfully channel their emotions via the (dis)agree tool, display their expertise to the world by explaining why they disagree, and rest their case.
Paul


I agree and this is what I have done.

But, I see you know Spanish. Imagine someone answering many questions in a row you are also looking into that makes mistakes with feminine-masculine (concordancia de género), gives answers out of context, misses prepositions, and after all this, challenges your disagrees.

I am sorry, I am not Jesus or Buddha. Everybody has a limit. He got several disagrees (not only from me) and still continues answering, and nobody sees this? I believe this is extremely damaging for KudoZ.


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Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:11
English to Spanish
+ ...
The Message Dec 29, 2005

For some people it takes a while to get the message, but they eventually do get it. The best thing I think is not to let things get out of hand and wait a while. Incompetence shows, and it will be recognized.

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Rosa Maria Duenas Rios  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:11
This has happened before... Dec 29, 2005

Fred Neild wrote:

agine someone answering many questions in a row you are also looking into that makes mistakes with feminine-masculine (concordancia de género), gives answers out of context, misses prepositions, and after all this, challenges your disagrees.
[/quote]

... at least in the SP-EN, EN-SP pairs, and the lousy answerers get so many disagrees, and so many comments regarding their (lack of) proficiency in the language pair, that they quietly disappear after a while. I do not think this is something that we need to worry much about.


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Fred Neild  Identity Verified
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
14 disagrees, 5 are mine : ) Dec 29, 2005

I stopped counting because I got tired. Maybe you would like to join me and have a little fun in the En-Es pair. You can't miss him.

See what I mean Kim?

[Edited at 2005-12-29 20:09]


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Fred Neild  Identity Verified
English to Spanish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
This has happened before and will continue happening Dec 29, 2005

Rosa and Henry

I know this happens but a colleague I respect a lot and essential for the Pt-En pair (because there aren't many American natives) got expelled because she couldn't hold her temper. She was wrong but we need to be reasonable.

Is this fair? Is this interesting for KudoZ? I am sure a couple of preemptive measures and common sense would be great and much appreciated.


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Rosa Maria Duenas Rios  Identity Verified
Local time: 07:11
I admit Fred has got a point... Dec 29, 2005

Fred Neild wrote:

I stopped counting because I got tired. Maybe you would like to join me and have a little fun in the En-Es pair. You can't miss him.

See what I mean Kim?

[Edited at 2005-12-29 20:09]


After going through what is happening in the Kudoz section, I think a moderator should intervene because one of the Kudoz rules is to abstain from responding questions in language pairs in which one does not have proficiency, and this person is clearly not respecting this rule. His native tongue is not Spanish, he has answered approx. 20 questions in the EN-SP pair, and he has got more than one disagree in about ten of them. Any moderator around who wants to take a look, or should we write to one directly?


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Fred Neild  Identity Verified
English to Spanish
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TOPIC STARTER
I wonder... Dec 29, 2005

if he is reading these postings, because he even invited me to debate, haha. Surreal...

I am waiting...

[Edited at 2005-12-29 21:00]


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xxxsarahl
Local time: 04:11
English to French
+ ...
Subjective? Dec 29, 2005

Rosa Maria,

Yes, staying away from language pairs where you don't belong is one of the rules. However, this can be subjective. The person we're talking about is listing Spanish as a target language in his profile. Clearly, he thinks he's proficient enough to translate *into* Spanish. While I fully agree with you guys in this specific case, the rule can be hard to enforce.

[Edited at 2005-12-29 21:00]


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