Can an asker award kudoZ points to more than one answerer?
Thread poster: Chinoise

Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:23
English to Chinese
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Nov 5, 2006

Hi all,

This is a spin-off of the previous thread regarding KudoZ Donation. My point is that if the ProZ.com staff presently wouldn't think it's necessary to add a button over there for the willing donors to transfer their kudoZ points to other qualified peers, would there be a possibility of awarding kudoZ points to more than one answerer at a time for a particular question asked? As we all know, there are too many occasions when two or more people deserve the four kudoZ points while only one of them can win the points. What are your thoughts, folks?

[Edited at 2006-11-05 15:31]


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Thomas Pfann  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:23
Member (2006)
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A 'thank you' instead of the points Nov 5, 2006

I suppose sometimes it would be fair to share the points between two or more answerers, but then again, what's all the fuss about?

If you find more than one answer helpful, award the points to whoever was that tat more thorough or more convincing in their reasoning and (important!) tell the others that their input was equally helpful and you appreciate their effort but that you will have to award the points to X because of Z.

It's not that you can buy anything for those points - sometimes you get them and sometimes you don't. No need to get obsessive about it, I'd say.


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:23
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Thanks, Thomas! Nov 5, 2006

Thomas Pfann wrote:

If you find more than one answer helpful, award the points to whoever was that tat more thorough or more convincing in their reasoning and (important!) tell the others that their input was equally helpful and you appreciate their effort but that you will have to award the points to X because of Z.

It's not that you can buy anything for those points - sometimes you get them and sometimes you don't. No need to get obsessive about it, I'd say.


You are quite right in suggesting that we award the four points to the person with the most convincing/complete answer while thanking other answerers for their kind help. It's also quite true that most of the answerers never make a fuss about the points. However, IMHO, once they answer a question and their answer is deemed as good as that of the winner, they deserve their points too, no matter how slowly they respond to the question. According to my four years' KudoZ-answering experience and observation, too many fruitless efforts will eventually discourage the "slow" answerers' participation in the kudoZ activities. Besides, if they keep trying in vain, their kudoZ "STATS" will clearly show that their "Acceptance Rate" is getting lower and lower, which is frustrating too…if we were in their position, we would be most likely to quit the game too. In sum, there's no point caring too much about one's kudoZ points (Personally, I never know what they're used for:)), but every participant is endowed with the right of self-recognition through mutual recognition.

[修改时间: 2006-11-05 17:52]


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Roland Nienerza  Identity Verified

Local time: 01:23
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Yes, the system is faultive - Nov 5, 2006

You are absolutely right. And this has been criticized often but unfortunately ProZ does not change it.

This is not a beauty contest - and even there it is not always the cutest that wins - and Thomas is also right that the points are just for score.

But there is still a competitive aspect to it - for instance the "KudoZ leader" count etc.

And not to forget. If a persons cares to help others it is his or her time that goes into it. And if the question is right it should be rewarded too.

Why has it to be 4 points to the prettiest and none to the others - allthough they are not ugly either. Maybe it would be good to give one point to any useful answer. - Or 2, 3 or 4 if need be to the best or fastest - and still 1 to everyone who cared to put time in.

The whole system deserves long to be overhauled in this sensen. Almost everybody seem to be unsatisfied. It is not fair -

- and it is even to complicated. Ther should be a checkbox right behind the answer or his input with the possibility to put in hook or a number and have done with it.

Roland Nienerza

[Edited at 2006-11-05 18:55]


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:23
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Well said… Nov 5, 2006

Thanks for your constructive input, Roland.

I agree with you and Thomas that there is still much to be improved on this site, although Henry and his team have already done much amazing work receiving universal recognition. As for the "KudoZ Leaders" aspect, I've been listed on that board for quite a few years. However, I have noticed that this topic was much discussed here and in the Non-English forums. More and more people tend to be doubtful of the truthfulness and reliability of "kudoz leaders"---Are they the people with the highest total points or the ones with the highest average points? Apparently, the current conception of "KudoZ Leaders" is defined as "those with the highest total points". But, most colleagues disagree with this criteria, the reason being that if this rule continues to apply, a person who has answered the most questions with the highest percentage of errors could still be the possible champion (This, of course, is a ridiculous thing.); Nevertheless, if we use the “average points” criterion, it could sound even more unfair: Any person who gets four points by answering only one kudoZ question would be the indisputable champion and remain the champion even if he or she wouldn't answer any more kudoZ question in the future (That would be a funny thing, too).

Therefore, I'm wondering if there is something in between for the ProZ.com team to work out...

Roland Nienerza wrote:
You are absolutely right. And this has been criticized often but unfortunately ProZ does not change it.
This is not a beauty contest - and even there it is not always the cutest that wins - and Thomas is also right that the points are just for score.
But there is still a competitive aspect to it - for instance the "KudoZ leader" count etc.
And not to forget. If a persons cares to help others it is his or her time that goes into it. And if the question is right it should be rewarded too.
Why has it to be 4 points to the prettiest and none to the others - allthough they are not ugly either. Maybe it would be good to give one point to any useful answer. - Or 2, 3 or 4 if need be to the best or fastest - and still 1 to everyone who cared to put time in.
The whole system deserves long to be overhauled in this sensen. Almost everybody seem to be unsatisfied. It is not fair -
Roland Nienerza


[修改时间: 2006-11-05 21:43]


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 16:23
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Oh, the deal with "slow answerers". Nov 5, 2006

Chinoise wrote:

no matter how slowly they respond to the question. According to my four years' KudoZ-answering experience and observation, too many fruitless efforts will eventually discourage the "slow" answerers' participation in the kudoZ activities.


That is exactly what is screwing up the KudoZ system. The "slow answerers" probably happen to live on the other hemisphere? Nothing personal, I just don't have the slightest idea why points are supposed to be given to the fastest answerer. Especially, when the next answerer (2 minutes late, what a loser... provides a well founded and well researched explanation, which in return confirms the first, hence, preferred answerers suggestion.

Points should be given to the most helpful answer, not the fastest. I give points to the person who helped me best understanding a technical term or similar. May the fast-paced point hunters feel ticked off. I don't care.

To answer your question: (How to award the snails)

I always say special thanks, sometimes I write personal emails. If several suggestions are correct and useable (I am not talking about tech terms here), they will be listed in the glossary as well.

As Thomas Pfann stated correctly:

"No need to get obsessive about it."


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
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Addendum Nov 6, 2006

Roland Nienerza wrote:

This is not a beauty contest

Roland Nienerza

[Edited at 2006-11-05 18:55]


Yes, it is. Not in regards to how neatly a suggestion is provided but it's all about the beauty of language and perfection in translation.

Are we professional translators or are we training for the Olympics?


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Kim Metzger  Identity Verified
Mexico
Local time: 18:23
German to English
Slowing down the process Nov 6, 2006

Nicole Schnell wrote:

That is exactly what is screwing up the KudoZ system. The "slow answerers" probably happen to live on the other hemisphere? Nothing personal, I just don't have the slightest idea why points are supposed to be given to the fastest answerer. Especially, when the next answerer (2 minutes late, what a loser... provides a well founded and well researched explanation, which in return confirms the first, hence, preferred answerers suggestion.

Points should be given to the most helpful answer, not the fastest. I give points to the person who helped me best understanding a technical term or similar. May the fast-paced point hunters feel ticked off. I don't care.



Hello Chinoise and Nicole - you've raised a point that is dear to my heart. It's been discussed at length before:

http://www.proz.com/post/227091#227091

But it never hurts to reiterate an important point.

It's a sad thing to see a whole gang piling on the agrees to the first reasonably viable answer as though speed were the main object of the exercise. A speedy, fairly accurate answer is nice, but it usually takes a little time to come up with a well-thought out and documented answer to a difficult translation problem.

I suppose we could come up with some additional mechanisms to slow down the process. We already have the feature that bumps an answer down on the list if the answerer decides to add some useful information AFTER submitting it within two minutes so he could get his foot in the door first.

Many members still think the first viable answer should get the points even if the answerer adds info later and gets his answer bumped down. This focus on speed is ugly.

I don't know the solution, but I think these forum discussions can help create a more healthy approach.


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:23
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Well done, Nicole! Nov 6, 2006

Nicole Schnell wrote:
I just don't have the slightest idea why points are supposed to be given to the fastest answerer. Especially, when the next answerer (2 minutes late, what a loser... provides a well founded and well researched explanation, which in return confirms the first, hence, preferred answerers suggestion.


You are an impartial grader, I would say. The fastest answerers with good references are the kudoZ winners--that’s what generally happens in the kudoZ section. As a matter of fact, we would never expect the fastest answerers with poor references to win the points, but they mostly do, and this is surely not to our liking. We are here talking about the best solution in addition to slowing down the process given that the fastest answerer happens to be either the best or the worst reference provider.
The latter is obviously a hard nut to crack.


Nicole Schnell wrote:
Points should be given to the most helpful answer, not the fastest. I give points to the person who helped me best understanding a technical term or similar. May the fast-paced point hunters feel ticked off. I don't care.


It calls for courage to take that unpopular stance, but you have shown your boldness there, kudos to you!


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Chinoise  Identity Verified
Local time: 20:23
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Thanks, Kim! Nov 6, 2006

Kim Metzger wrote:
Hello Chinoise and Nicole - you've raised a point that is dear to my heart. It's been discussed at length before:

http://www.proz.com/post/227091#227091

Many members still think the first viable answer should get the points even if the answerer adds info later and gets his answer bumped down. This focus on speed is ugly.

I don't know the solution, but I think these forum discussions can help create a more healthy approach.


Many thanks for providing this link. That was really a lengthy talk. Unfortunately, I didn’t see a valid solution there either.

I am hoping that we can come up with a more feasible solution, i.e. giving more than one answerer a chance to get the points, since most of us here seem to agree that winning kudoZ points or being kudoZ leaders is really a petty thing…


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