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Kudoz points - why do some colleagues only attribute 1 or 2 points?
Thread poster: Susy Ordaz

Susy Ordaz  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:55
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Jul 5, 2007

I have a bone to pick and I'm sure it has crossed the minds of many of my fellow colleagues and friends here at Proz.

Why on earth do some colleagues only attribute 1 or 2 points for the efforts of the translator who researches the term?????? I know there are non-pro and pro questions and some terms are much more complex but for heaven sake 1 point?

I'd love to hear your comments.

Susy Ordaz

[Subject edited by staff or moderator 2007-07-06 01:53]


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Magda Dziadosz  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 13:55
Member (2004)
English to Polish
+ ...
Moving this topic... Jul 5, 2007

to the KudoZ forum.


Magda


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gianfranco  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 09:55
Member (2001)
English to Italian
+ ...
It is a decision left to the asker Jul 5, 2007

Hi Susy,

the official parameters for awarding KudoZ points are explained in the KudoZ FAQ, item number 58
http://www.proz.com/faq/kudoz#KudoZ_grading_scale

Unfortunately this is largely disregarded and, contrary to your question, it is more or less standard to award almost invariably 4 points.
I don't know if you are referring to a specific case, where perhaps 4 points were fully deserved on the basis of the guidelines above but only 1 or 2 awarded, but in general the number of points awarded is left to the judgement of the asker.
On the other hand, those askers may have read the FAQ and applying the site guidelines to the letter, disregarding the general trend for 4 points for any help.

There is currently no possibility or policy of changing, by site staff or moderators, the number of points awarded, not even in case of a clearly unfair decision.


bye
Gianfranco



[Edited at 2007-07-05 19:58]


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xxx1279
Local time: 07:55
possible cause for confusion Jul 5, 2007

I used to think it was possible to split points between multiple answerers, as long as the total points given out weren't more than 4.

At one point, I tried to give 2 and 2 to different colleagues whose answers/explanations I'd combined into one glossary entry. It didn't work.

I wouldn't be surprised if more members aren't similarly confused!


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Susy Ordaz  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:55
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Kudoz points Jul 5, 2007

Thanks gianfranco. I have read the rules and it has happened to me quite often. Having researched the terms and only getting one or two points (I felt almost unworthy and cheated). Obviously it's up to the asker but on many occasions I have more than 4 agrees and end up getting 1 or 2 points. It peeves me. But thanks for the information.
Susy


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Levan Namoradze  Identity Verified
Georgia
Local time: 15:55
Member (2005)
English to Georgian
+ ...
Dear Susy Jul 5, 2007

Dear Susy,
I am sure you know why. And I suspect, I know as well.


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Susy Ordaz  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:55
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Feeling jipped Jul 5, 2007

Dear Levan,

I'd love to hear your suspisions..just to see if they match mine


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Claudia Alvis  Identity Verified
Peru
Local time: 06:55
Spanish
+ ...
Several legit reasons Jul 5, 2007

I assume the reason Levan suggest is plain KudoZ rivalry, which of course is not only unfair, it's also unethical. However, there are some legit reasons for not assigning the full 4 points.

Sometimes all the given answers are acceptable for the term but NOT for the context clearly indicated. I always try to add as much context as I can, but sometimes it's obvious that some answerers don't even bother to read the whole question or provide the first thing they find on an online dictionary. But in other cases, they do read the context and still provide an answer that doesn't apply to it, but it's still a very useful answer.

Another scenario is when the perfect answer is given but there are not enough references or they're completely unrelated. I've seen some answers with an infinity of random references copy/pasted from Google, and even though the answer might the acceptable, I don't think that kind of " research" deserves the 4 points.

I think many KudoZ users are scared of giving 1, 2 or even 3 points, in the same way they're scared of disagreeing with an answer. Don't forget that KudoZ points can also help to rate the terms and therefore, help other users. And being too nice or generous can be misleading to a person that's using the glossaries. Don't take it personal.

It's just my opinion.

Claudia

[Edited at 2007-07-05 23:29]


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jelly_gill  Identity Verified
India
Local time: 17:25
Member (2006)
English to Panjabi
+ ...
sometimes jeolousy plays a part.. Jul 6, 2007

The point of view which I am going to represent would seem strange to many people, but it does exist at least in case of my language pair.

Whenever an outsourcer, company or visitor searches the freelancers database for a particular language pair, the names of full member translators are displayed as per the kudoz points earned by them. So the name of highest kudoz points scorer for a particular language would appear at the top and so on. And it is highly likely that the individual who is searching for translators would select a translator from the top 10 because high Kudoz points earned by a translator convince him of translator's capability.


Many a times some professional translators need other translators help for some tough terms but they dont want to show that they themselves are not capable of translating these terms. So they create fake profiles and ask questions.

If some asker awards you 4 professional level points for a tough term, your ranking in the searchable database goes up (which depends upon kudoz points) and overtime you may make it to top 10 which the asker (who himself is a registered member but is asking questions through fake profiles) don't like.

One month ago, I answered a professional level question and got a net peer aggreement of +3, but the asker didnt bother to award me any point for this, although over a period of 2 weeks, proz.com repeatedly reminds the asker to select the best answer. Later on after the 02 week period was over, the points I deserved were automatically given to me based on net peer agreement.

Anyone else has a similar story to tell?


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 13:55
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
Really, the question should be 'why almost always 4 points?' Jul 6, 2007

Really, the question should be 'why almost always 4 points?'
Apart from all the ulterior motives described above, we should not really feel cheated when we get less than four points for an answer. (Though I know I do myself occasionally!)

This is the 'official ' scale given in the FAQ:
http://www.proz.com/?sp=about/kudoz#kudoz_grading

(You have to scroll right down to find it, but it's there.)

58. What is the criteria for the amount of points (1-4) I should award to the selected answer?

When deciding how many points to award, please consider this scale as a guideline:

4: Answer was acceptable, explanation was good, reference was provided (or not needed)
3: Answer was acceptable, explanation was good, but reference was lacking
2: Answer was acceptable
1: Answer was somewhat helpful

* * * * * * * * * * * *

I once had my own unofficial scale, something like this:

1 point - thanks for trying, confirming my suggestion or giving me a hint. (When I had asked the client, found the answer elsewhere, or whatever. I rarely, if ever, used it.)

2 points - Thanks for finding it in the right dictionary for me when I didn't have time or didn't have the dictionary.

3 points - Thanks for a good answer that I could not find for myself.

4 points - Wow, thanks, I've really learnt something there!

But everyone working in my language pairs seems to give 4 points 90% of the time, and it feels mean not to follow suit!

As a points grabber, I know that some of the answers that have earned me 4 points were really only worth 2 or 3 !!!
While in other cases I feel the full four were well deserved, either by me or another answerer.

Maybe we should look at the guidelines more often and stop the inflation, so that it actually means something special when we give 4 points.

That was how it was intended to be, and it would be fairer to everyone.



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nordiste  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 13:55
English to French
+ ...
agree with Christine Jul 6, 2007

Christine Andersen wrote:

When deciding how many points to award, please consider this scale as a guideline:

4: Answer was acceptable, explanation was good, reference was provided (or not needed)
3: Answer was acceptable, explanation was good, but reference was lacking
2: Answer was acceptable
1: Answer was somewhat helpful

* * * * * * * * * * * *

I once had my own unofficial scale, something like this:

1 point - thanks for trying, confirming my suggestion or giving me a hint. (When I had asked the client, found the answer elsewhere, or whatever. I rarely, if ever, used it.)

2 points - Thanks for finding it in the right dictionary for me when I didn't have time or didn't have the dictionary.

3 points - Thanks for a good answer that I could not find for myself.

4 points - Wow, thanks, I've really learnt something there!



I also think there is nothing wrong with giving or receiving "only" 1 point for a little help.


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Peter Linton  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:55
Member (2002)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Definitive answer Jul 6, 2007

Christine Andersen has given the definitive answer to the question. This is a case where discrimination is a good thing.

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Susy Ordaz  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:55
Portuguese to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Kudoz points Jul 6, 2007

Claudia I must disagree with you.
I don't give two cents about how many points I have, actually I just gave 4000 BrowniZ away. What bothers me is that if the answer is correct (references or not), other colleagues have also agreed, why not just give them 4 points???

I know all the rules, and it's up to the asker, blah, blah, blah. But let's face it folks it's all about the effort of some and the lack of generosity of others.

Don't you think?


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Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:55
Italian to English
+ ...
Abolish the points scale Jul 6, 2007

While I agree that in principle it's a sensible system, in practice it's used so little as to be irrelevant. I would never propose abolishing the points system altogether (I know some people have), but I do think the differentiation could be abolished in favour of simple selection of the most helpful answer.

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