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Overuse of KudoZ - please limit questions per day (or per hour)
Thread poster: Catherine Bolton

Catherine Bolton  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:10
Member (2002)
Italian to English
+ ...
Jan 29, 2003

The Italian/English community is being spammed -- and not in the easy category, so it\'s not a matter of changing settings.

After receiving 27 postings in the past two hours, from someone who OBVIOUSLY hasn\'t a clue where to begin, I\'ve been forced to deactivate my e-mail settings until he or she has turned in the job that should not have been accepted in the first place.

Henry, PULLEEZZ put a ceiling on the numbers of kudoz that can be posted in a day. Or an hour.



[ This Message was edited byn2003-01-29 20:02]


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Sven Petersson  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 05:10
English to Swedish
+ ...
Two very good reasons not to limit the number of questions asked Jan 29, 2003

Two very good reasons not to limit the number of questions asked:



1. It would decrease the speed with which the ProZ glossary is growing, which is hardly in the interest of ProZ and its serious members.



2. It cannot be done (the asker would just obtain several memberships under different names and email addresses).



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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:10
English to German
+ ...
Partial agreement... Jan 29, 2003

Hi Sven,

I guess you could say we don\'t agree that often...

Quote:


On 2003-01-29 20:58, sven wrote:

Two very good reasons not to limit the number of questions asked:



1. It would decrease the speed with which the ProZ glossary is growing, which is hardly in the interest of ProZ and its serious members.



Here\'s where I beg to differ, since I\'d look at the quality rather than the speed of growth. But...



Quote:


2. It cannot be done (the asker would just obtain several memberships under different names and email addresses).



Exactly. An arbitrary ceiling would put those in genuine need of assistance at a disadvantage (because they would probably not think about this one).



In my experience, each language pair gets \"flooded\" with a string of questions once in a while. If you see something like that happen, just contact the moderator(s) involved, and ask him/her/them to look into it. More often than not, there\'s a reasonable explanation - where we usually draw the line is with users who don\'t check the existing glossaries, don\'t grade questions or try to get a free translation by posting sentence after sentence...

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langnet  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 05:10
Member (2002)
Italian to German
+ ...
Noticed the same thing as cbolton... Jan 29, 2003

Obviously, there\'s someone who has some difficulty with his/her translation, though even I was wondering seeing some of the questions that could have been answered by consulting a good (appopriate...) bilingual dictionary...

Personally, I decided not to provide any help being a rather \"suspicious\" individual, but many collegues did, and they\'re absolutely free to do so, and fortunately for the asker they did.

Of course, sometimes it can happen to all of us to be in a need, and we may post a lot of questions subsequently, i.g. after having closed a big job, just to verify our doubts before delivering (there\'s been a recent posting of \"thank you all\" in the Italian forum because of this, the person having been falsely \"accused\" of \"abuse\" of KudoZ).

In any case, it would be good practice to explain to our friends and collegues the reason why we\'re posting so much questions subsequently; unfortunatly it can happen to anyone of us to accept a job discovering only afterwards that we\'re not completely up to it (the famous \"unangenehme Überraschungen\").

However, in this particular case I think there\'s a completely lack of basics and translation experience. The latter is absolutely OK, all of us had to have a start some way... but if so, simply, JUST MAKE CLEAR your situation, don\'t be ashame!

However, in this - particular - case I would appreciate a short notice mailed by the moderator(s) to the asker making clear to him/her or drawing him/her attention to the fact that he/she may be \"abusing\" the KudoZ board by posting one question after another and that a lot of ProZ might refrain from helping.



My humble opinion



P.S: Please excuse my English, my active language skills are rather rusty...

[ This Message was edited by:on2003-01-30 00:03]


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Nathalie M. Girard, ALHC  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
We need quality over quantity Jan 30, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-01-29 21:22, Lemster wrote:





Here\'s where I beg to differ, since I\'d look at the quality rather than the speed of growth. But...





Ditto over here Ralf.



We need quality over quantity in the Proz glossaries. And I think that a MAJOR clean-up is required in there.



Are there any plans to review all the entries across the board, and remove/modify them so that they are *actually* truly accurate, instead of reflecting the *most helpful* suggestion a person was given at a certain time?



Having selected and entered the \"most helpful\" suggestion does not mean that it is the *accurate* one in the end.





Quote:


2. It cannot be done (the asker would just obtain several memberships under different names and email addresses).



Exactly. An arbitrary ceiling would put those in genuine need of assistance at a disadvantage (because they would probably not think about this one).





**** I beg to differ since Henry has clearly stated that PROZ can now fully track IP addresses, and block a person out/ban them from Proz - NO MATTER what user ID the person would try to create, they would not possibly be able to create a new profile and start asking Kudoz questions.



Or am I wrong?



Regards,

Nathalie

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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:10
English to German
+ ...
A few very good points Jan 30, 2003

Hallo - lange nix von dir gehört (sorry: gelesen)...



Quote:


Personally, I decided not to provide any help being a rather \"suspicious\" individual, but many collegues did, and they\'re absolutely free to do so, and fortunately for the asker they did.



Spot on!



Quote:


In any case, it would be good practice to explain to our friends and collegues the reason why we\'re posting so much questions subsequently; unfortunatly it can happen to anyone of us to accept a job discovering only afterwards that we\'re not completely up to it (the famous \"unangenehme Überraschungen\").



Quite - in fact, that\'s what I often recommend to newer participants.



Quote:
However, in this - particular - case I would appreciate a short notice mailed by the moderator(s) to the asker making clear to him/her or drawing him/her attention to the fact that he/she may be \"abusing\" the KudoZ board by posting one question after another and that a lot of ProZ might refrain from helping.



If you notice something like this, just drop a short note to the moderator(s) - although most are active on ProZ on a daily basis, we can\'t see everything... TIA!



Good night...

Best regards, Ralf

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Ralf Lemster  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 05:10
English to German
+ ...
Not 100% sure Jan 30, 2003

Quote:


**** I beg to differ since Henry has clearly stated that PROZ can now fully track IP addresses, and block a person out/ban them from Proz - NO MATTER what user ID the person would try to create, they would not possibly be able to create a new profile and start asking Kudoz questions.



Or am I wrong?



Hi Nathalie,

I must admit I\'m not 100% certain here, since I\'m not familiar with the exact way ProZ.com uses IP tracking. I guess this will make a \"multi-ID approach\" somewhat more difficult, though.



Aside from the technical features, imposing a ceiling that\'s bound to be arbitrary always holds the risk that those in real need will suffer. Quite a few cases of alleged abuse actually turned out to be bona fide uses of the site.

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langnet  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 05:10
Member (2002)
Italian to German
+ ...
Absolutely true... Jan 30, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-01-30 00:19, Lemster wrote:

Hallo - lange nix von dir gehört (sorry: gelesen)...

Quote:




Personally, I decided not to provide any help being a rather \"suspicious\" individual, but many collegues did, and they\'re absolutely free to do so, and fortunately for the asker they did.



Spot on!



Quote:


In any case, it would be good practice to explain to our friends and collegues the reason why we\'re posting so much questions subsequently; unfortunatly it can happen to anyone of us to accept a job discovering only afterwards that we\'re not completely up to it (the famous \"unangenehme Überraschungen\").



Quite - in fact, that\'s what I often recommend to newer participants.



Quote:
However, in this - particular - case I would appreciate a short notice mailed by the moderator(s) to the asker making clear to him/her or drawing him/her attention to the fact that he/she may be \"abusing\" the KudoZ board by posting one question after another and that a lot of ProZ might refrain from helping.



If you notice something like this, just drop a short note to the moderator(s) - although most are active on ProZ on a daily basis, we can\'t see everything... TIA!



Good night...

Best regards, Ralf



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langnet  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 05:10
Member (2002)
Italian to German
+ ...
Absolutely right... Jan 30, 2003

Quote:


If you notice something like this, just drop a short note to the moderator(s) - although most are active on ProZ on a daily basis, we can\'t see everything... TIA!





Hi Ralf



Viele liebe Grüße auch an Dich!



You\'re absolutey right, moderators can\'t see everything.

However, personally I don\'t feel too comfortable playing the role of the police(wo)man, it\'s always a bit like running on a blade; so it\'s a good thing some topics are discussed in the forums.

[ This Message was edited by:on2003-01-30 00:53]

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Jacek Krankowski  Identity Verified
English to Polish
+ ...
Not a game and not a finite game Jan 30, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-01-29 21:57, 1964 wrote:

Kudoz is not an endless game, it is finite. Its upper limit is dictionaries of eah language.





Not true. Dictionaries are not finite. Apart from the fact that new words are born every day, KudoZ is not about single terms, but also about expressions and phrases of which there is an infinite number. We all know what \"to take\" means. Yet I bet someone will wonder one day what \"She took a letter in shorthand\" means, and even once this is entered in the Glossary, someone else may well ask what \"She took notes\" means. Something similar to \"She took an oath\"? or \"She took ballet\"? or rather \"She took the blame\"? Yeah, \"The new TV show took with the public.\" See the glossary above, \"take\" should be obvious by now! So don\'t ask about \"The vaccination took,\" or \"She took to her studies,\" or \"We took across the meadow.\" Do rather your homework based on the existing glossary entries: You\'ve already got \"take,\" add to that \"across\" and \"meadow\" and you\'ve got the answer. No need to ask another KudoZ! So what about phrases like \"The museum got taken on that painting,\" or \"The kitten took my fancy\"? Are you sure people will stop asking about them once we refer them to our finite glossary? I doubt it. And this is just a few meanings of just one verb. The resulting combinations are infinite and so will be the ProZ Glossary.

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Jacek Krankowski  Identity Verified
English to Polish
+ ...
Spot on! Jan 30, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-01-29 21:22, Lemster wrote:

In my experience, each language pair gets \"flooded\" with a string of questions once in a while. If you see something like that happen, just contact the moderator(s) involved, and ask him/her/them to look into it.





That is much more reasonable than an administrative limit. May I quote Mats Wiman:



\"Yes the world would be safer if it consisted only of certified professionals but Proz.com is everyone’s university and we are all there to learn, help and develop.\"

http://www.proz.com/?sp=bb/viewtopic&post=48500#48500



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António Ribeiro  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:10
English to Portuguese
+ ...
English/Portuguese - similar story Jan 30, 2003

Just another exemple:



70 postings for the past 9 days as follows:



30th January: 5 so far

29th: 19

28th: 15

27th: 7

26th; 3

24th: 6

23rd: 6

22nd: 6

21st: 3



When asked about this, her comment was: \"I am just helping a friend of mine to develop a these and I am no so good at English...\".



What is the name for this kind of behaviour? I call it ABUSE.


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Amy Williams  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:10
Italian to English
+ ...
New spot-the-job game on KudoZ Jan 30, 2003

Dear all,

Quite right, Jacek.



Restrictions on KudoZ postings seem to have been discussed time and time again, so I won\'t harp on about it.

KudoZ and its glossaries are such a great resource that the wider public is naturally going to want to make use of it - and abuse it. I am in agreement with CBolton on the recent Italian>English postings from the IT>EN lot, but restricting postings would mean that genuine queries were ruled out (10 queries at the end of a 20,000 word translation=not bad).



Now for \"spot-the-job\": the most gutting part of KudoZ is not, in my opinion, the annoying \"What\'s \"Welcome\" in Haitian-Créole and everything under the sun?\" postings by anonymous, but seemingly simple full sentences (which the poster hasn\'t even attempted to break down) which ring a bell - ah yes, you bid earlier today for that translation...





A


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Angela Arnone  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:10
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
Tolerance and common sense for pros/ProZ Jan 30, 2003

As the moderator for the SC being \"condemned\" here I\'m a bit puzzled. I receive all kudoz posted ENIT and I did not feel I was being spammed...I simply have a filter to send all kudoz to special folders - that way I can actually see how many are coming in and who, what, where is happening.

If anyone on my SC has a problem they can e-mail (easier than posting a forum but clearly no debate ensues) and I contact the person to see what can be done.



But, you know, all of you, that the entire site and its facilities are free and open to all, so we can cash in on the help offered by others as well as helping others out who are in a spot. But none of us are under any kind of obligation to get involved, so there are mechanisms for temporarily stopping a flood of questions or they can just be ignored.



What I find rather more a matter for concern is that a colleague prefers to entrust an entire translation to potluck, by posting it sentence by sentence on the site, which is excellent, but offers no guarantee for quality.

Personally I would never do that - I would contact someone from the site whom I trust because I have seen how they work through their kudoz answers, forum postings and general attitude, and I would ask them either as a favour (if I\'m really broke, oh dear) or by offering to pay for a proofing service.

This is a matter of respect for oneself, for one\'s colleagues and for one\'s customers.

As a translator I do get irked when I see that others have accepted jobs that they are not sufficiently experienced to do (none of us is expert at everything and the answer is to be honest with the customer) because, at the end of the day, it\'s \"me\" losing out on a job \"I\'m\" far more experienced to do that the person who accepted it.

If I were a customer I would be more than irked to see my job posted willy nilly on a site for all to read.

If I were the translator I would learn a tough lesson. Better say no than look unprofessional.

Certainly, if I had to find a collaborator for a project I would not choose someone who posted dozens of questions for a previous job on the site. I would choose someone who does ask for help, but in a pondered manner.



So I hope I can quell all your boiling spirits and invite those who \"lost it\" to be a teensy weensy bit more tolerant (doesn\'t happen every day) and to those who \"post it\" to not be \"trigger happy\" on the kudoz button.



Have a good day all of you



Angela









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Jacek Krankowski  Identity Verified
English to Polish
+ ...
No abuse IMHO Jan 30, 2003

Quote:


On 2003-01-30 01:28, antrib wrote:

70 postings for the past 9 days ...

What is the name for this kind of behaviour? I call it ABUSE.





Please note that neither KudoZ Rules of Etiquette nor FAQs forbid us to ask 70 questions in 9 days.



I subscribe, therefore, to what Mats Wiman also said:



\"Do not use the word \'abuse\', about people that haven\'t been proven guilty of that (and the word abuse is often far too strong, let alone not having been defined).



Exceeding a limit, which by the way has not been defined (the only limits that have been discussed is how many ungraded questions one should be allowed to have) is not abuse.\"

http://www.proz.com/?sp=bb/viewtopic&post=48500#48500

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