KudoZ RuleZ enforcement - a question for members Thread poster: Kim Metzger
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Should the question "What has your own research into the subject revealed?" be prohibited in the ask-the-asker box? I was just informed that my access to this feature has been blocked for a week because of my violation of site rule 3.7
3.7 Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, is not allowed. Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a... See more Should the question "What has your own research into the subject revealed?" be prohibited in the ask-the-asker box? I was just informed that my access to this feature has been blocked for a week because of my violation of site rule 3.7
3.7 Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, is not allowed. Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited (whether posted publicly, made directly to the person in question, or made to another site user).
Clearly, moderators differ in their interpretation of the purpose of the ask-the-asker feature, which is formally defined below:
23. ANSWERING: What is the KudoZ "ask the asker" function for?
"Ask the asker" allows members to request additional context or other clarification from a KudoZ asker.
The "Ask the Asker" function should not be used for any purpose other than that stated above. It is against the rules to use it for answering, or commenting on the asker's decision to post the question.
http://www.proz.com/index.php?sp=about/kudoz&show_mode=kudozrules#kudoz_ask_asker
Wouldn't you agree that checking with the asker to see what his own research has yielded is a legitimate use of this feature? This kind of clarification can often be helpful in the process of finding a good translation. Translators are often very busy when they ask their questions and frequently (I know it happens to me more often that I would like to think) omit vital information. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Patricia Rosas 
United States
Local time: 08:07
Spanish to English
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In memoriam
Kim Metzger wrote:
Wouldn't you agree that checking with the asker to see what his own research has yielded is a legitimate use of this feature? This kind of clarification can often be helpful in the process of finding a good translation. Translators are often very busy when they ask their questions and frequently (I know it happens to me more often that I would like to think) omit vital information.
Kim,
I'm sorry to see that you got your wrist slapped. To my mind, many rules (here and out there in the "real" world) are designed to prevent abusive behavior, and they are generally ignored -- until someone truly transgresses. (You can appreciate the idea of a leash law, which is never applied to some starlet's "pooch in the purse," for example!)
In my opinion, some form of this rule is clearly needed because there is a potential for someone insulting someone else. But in your case, you've innocently asked if the asker had turned up some useful information in his or her research so that you could use that as a starting point for your own labors to arrive at a good answer. Certainly that isn't abusive!
I cannot imagine why it would not be legitimate to ask this!
Best,
Patricia
| | | | Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 09:07
German to English
TOPIC STARTER | Clarification | Dec 2, 2007 |
Patricia Rosas wrote:
But in your case, you've innocently asked if the asker had turned up some useful information in his or her research so that you could use that as a starting point for your own labors to arrive at a good answer. Certainly that isn't abusive!
I cannot imagine why it would not be legitimate to ask this!
Hi Patricia - thanks for your support. I have to assume the staff member who invoked the punishment interpreted my remark as questioning whether the asker had done his homework before asking the question. I received no explanation, just a citation of the rules that were allegedly violated.
But, in my view, we must enforce the rules on the basis of what is actually written and not on the basis of how the rules enforcer interprets the words. My question was, "What has your own research into the subject revealed?" Members have frequently had their wrists slapped for asking askers to check the glossaries before submitting questions, for example. We learn from these incidents and try to choose our words more carefully.
So my question for members is whether you think this kind of question, phrased this way or similarly, should be allowed in the ask-the-asker box. If questions worded this way are in violation of the rules, how many other questions/comments will get us blocked? Should we even be allowed to discuss rules enforcement in our public forums?
| | | | | Some folks are more sensitive than others. | Dec 2, 2007 |
Patricia Rosas wrote:
I cannot imagine why it would not be legitimate to ask this!
Best,
Patricia
I imagine someone might think that Kim was "scolding" the asker, implying that s/he had not bothered to research the question. It's the same situation as a "disagree" to an answer--it's easy to take it personally. We shouldn't be offended by legitimate questions or honest disagreement, but sometimes we are. It sounds to me as if that may have happened here.
Of the comments I see in the "ask asker" box, very few adhere to the strictest sense of the rule. On the other hand, very few are really abusive. Often an interesting cultural-linguistic chat develops; many of the comments are useful, and would not really fit as comments accompanying an agree-neutral-disagree to a specific answer.
Kim, in your specific case, I presume you've asked the moderator or site staff involved for his/her reasoning. Not having seen the question (the "context"!), I'll refrain from expressing an opinion. But I hope that either:
a) strict application of this rule does not become habitual, or:
b) a new box is introduced in KudoZ for discussion--a mini-forum, if you will--of the question.
Sometimes I, as an asker, have gotten more help from the "ask the asker" discussion than from the answers!
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Magda Dziadosz
Poland
Local time: 17:07
Member (2004)
English to Polish
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You are addressing your question to the members, please note however that members cannot be your judges as they don't see hidden comments neither they know previous situations, do they?
Your concern should be addressed to the moderators and/or site staff.
I'm locking this thread until the site staff will be able to reply to you.
Best,
Magda
| | | | | Rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7 | Dec 2, 2007 |
I did block Kim's rights to use the ask the asker box because in my opinion his comment was an insinuation concerning the asker's decision to ask that particular question. This is not in line with site rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7 and previous actions were considered when the administrative action was taken.
I am blocking this thread because it is not... See more I did block Kim's rights to use the ask the asker box because in my opinion his comment was an insinuation concerning the asker's decision to ask that particular question. This is not in line with site rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.7#3.7 and previous actions were considered when the administrative action was taken.
I am blocking this thread because it is not in line with site rule http://www.proz.com/siterules/forum/11#11 as detailed in FAQ http://www.proz.com/faq/forums#forums_scope
Regards,
Enrique ▲ Collapse
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