FORMATTING OF FORMS, STAMPS, ETC.
Thread poster: Frank Gerace

Frank Gerace
United States
Local time: 12:08
Spanish to English
+ ...
Aug 1, 2015

Is it necessary to copy the formatting of legal pages such as the EU's Registry of Citizen, passport pages, birth certificates etc. thanks

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Triston Goodwin  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:08
Spanish to English
+ ...
I try to Aug 2, 2015

We're not exactly trying to create exact copies of the documents, but I do try to imitate the layout as much as I can. If nothing else, it makes the end user's job easier when they compare the two documents (like with immigration paperwork). I mostly stick to using Word's table and text box functions. I don't think there is any need to arc texts or things like that, though.

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philgoddard
United States
German to English
+ ...
. Aug 2, 2015

In recent years, I find translation companies have become obsessed with reproducing the appearance of the document. The most extreme example was a customer who blew his top because I hadn't used the same font or pasted in the logo at the beginning of the text.

I think you should just do the translation, and if the customer wants to turn it into an artistic masterpiece, that's their business. You're paid for your language skills, not for desktop publishing.


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Kalyanasundar subramaniam
India
Local time: 22:38
Tamil to English
+ ...
FORMATTING OF FORMS, STAMPS, ETC. Aug 2, 2015

I entirely agree . A translator is paid for his language skills . But invariably most clients ask for an exact replica of the source document in the translated document.

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Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 18:08
German to Swedish
+ ...
So Aug 2, 2015

philgoddard wrote:

companies have become obsessed with reproducing the appearance of the document.


Kalyanasundar subramaniam wrote:

A translator is paid for his language skills . But invariably most clients ask for an exact replica of the source document in the translated document.


So actually the translator is paid for a combination of skills. Not unreasonable, I think.


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Khushnood1976
Pakistan
Local time: 22:08
English to Urdu
+ ...
Ethics Aug 2, 2015

Ethically the linguist should be paid for words. DTP should be done by a designer. Living in real world it is not always possible.

Many times the things happen according to the deal.


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Diana Coada  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:08
Portuguese to English
+ ...
When it comes to certificates and any other personal documents Aug 2, 2015

there are two general rules, I find:

1. Stick to the layout as much as you can

2. Never copy/paste/photoshop any logos, images or seals (it is actually forbidden in some countries) and only use a formula along these lines: [round stamp]: *translated text*.

You might find this thread useful:
http://www.proz.com/forum/translation_theory_and_practice/239288-is_it_proper_to_copy_images_of_signatures_into_a_translation.html


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Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 18:08
German to Swedish
+ ...
Ethics Aug 2, 2015

Khushnood1976 wrote:

Ethically the linguist should be paid for words. DTP should be done by a designer.


Ethically, we should be paid for whatever services we provide.

Regardless of the self-labeling, if we provide professional-level quality, customers will return. If not, natural selection will take care of us and the customers will not be back.

[Bearbeitet am 2015-08-02 15:47 GMT]


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Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 18:08
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
We need to provide quality Aug 3, 2015

Joakim Braun wrote:

Khushnood1976 wrote:

Ethically the linguist should be paid for words. DTP should be done by a designer.



Precisely. I do not produce quality DTP work, though I do know how to use Word tables etc. and make minor adjustments in a Power-Point slide.


Ethically, we should be paid for whatever services we provide.



End of story. I provide the best services I can, and if am not paid, then I take action, and will probably not work for that client again.

I let clients know I am a translator and do not offer DTP.

I do NOT copy and paste logos etc. because I am not entitled to use them.
The document I produce is a translation, and is not valid without the original source document. It does not carry the original stamps and signatures etc. and attempts to reproduce them could be deemed forgery.

You cannot travel on a translation of a passport without the original.
A translation of a divorce certificate is not a new divorce certificate.
Etc.
Very often translations of legislation, contracts, letters of association and the like carry a reservation that only the original in the source language is legally valid, and should there be any discrepancy or ambiguity, the original (of course) takes precedence.

So while it must be clear which sections of the translation correspond to which sections of the original, you should NOT in fact attempt to reproduce all the details too precisely!




[Edited at 2015-08-03 12:10 GMT]


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Merab Dekano  Identity Verified
Spain
Member (2014)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Spain Aug 3, 2015

[quote]Diana Coada, PGDip DPSI NRPSI wrote:

Never copy/paste/photoshop any logos, images or seals (it is actually forbidden in some countries) and only use a formula along these lines:
stamp]: *translated text*.


Indeed, Spain is one of them. However, this rule applies to sworn translations mostly.

In any case, there is no point in reproducing stamps, etc., becuase you will have to translate the content anyway.


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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 15:08
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Brazil and Spain have national laws on that Aug 3, 2015

Merab Dekano wrote:

Diana Coada, PGDip DPSI NRPSI wrote:

Never copy/paste/photoshop any logos, images or seals (it is actually forbidden in some countries) ...


Indeed, Spain is one of them. However, this rule applies to sworn translations mostly.

In any case, there is no point in reproducing stamps, etc., becuase you will have to translate the content anyway.


Maybe others have it too, however AFAIK Brazil and Spain are the two countries having sworn translators and very strict demands that any document in a foreign language MUST be translated by these - and no other - translators for ANY official purpose.

The Brazilian setting is explained in detail at http://www.lamensdorf.com.br/sworn-translation.html , however I don't know much about the Spanish one. Key differences are:
- Brazilian sworn translators can only exist as such within the national territory (diplomatic offices abroad being excluded); Spanish ones may operate anywhere.
- In Brazil, statewide-set translation prices are mandatory, based on line/char (depending on the state) count on the FINISHED translation; Spanish translators may negotiate.
- Brazilian sworn translators must be Brazilian citizens; Spain will accept any EC citizenship.

The applicable federal decree in Brazil is ancient - 1943 a.D. - and remains unamended. Only statewide new regulations (including rates) are issued from time to time. Of course, such law dating back from times when only Jules Verne could envision computers, printers, the Internet, causes some trouble. Everything is required to be in hard copy, and it is visible that the entire setting includes either a typewriter or a fountain pen.

A few colleagues take great pains in mimicking the original document's artwork, since it's not forbidden. However they don't get paid for DTP. Until that law is updated, all my sworn translations, though computer-generated and laser-printed, are in Courier New bold 12pt, neatly laid out, but devoid of pictures. Since the original or a copy thereof must be attached, anyone looking for visual arts may find it there.

Sometimes I'm requested to do certified translations for the USA. I know the practice there is to make a translated replica of the original DTP. As I am skilled with Page Maker, I can do it relatively quickly and with amazing quality, though I charge for the DTP. (I still think InDesign is an overkill for such purposes.)


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