Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6] >
Audit clause in freelance contracts - a breach of the other clients' NDAs
Thread poster: Reea-Silvia Podeanu

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
Office at home Oct 26, 2017

4) "Home office: I have an office in my home. Refers to having a dedicated space for performing freelance work from home."

5) "OS updates: Updates to my operating system are auto-installed."
We could need a 'compromise' option here for people that do keep their OS up to date, but without allowing the OS to decide exactly when. Not rushing to install every update instantly can protect against updates with serious flaws, by the way.

6) "Software updates: I have a to
... See more
4) "Home office: I have an office in my home. Refers to having a dedicated space for performing freelance work from home."

5) "OS updates: Updates to my operating system are auto-installed."
We could need a 'compromise' option here for people that do keep their OS up to date, but without allowing the OS to decide exactly when. Not rushing to install every update instantly can protect against updates with serious flaws, by the way.

6) "Software updates: I have a tool that checks for updates to all of the software on my computer."
I'm not aware of one single tool that does this. We could also need a compromise option here, as many may have some software without automatic routines installed.
Collapse


 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
More comments Oct 26, 2017

General: Some of the optional restrictions would preclude use of TM Town – which is, by the way, why many of us consider the principles behind TM Town inappropriate in relation to confidentiality requirements.

7) "Non-disclosure of processes, rates: I do not discuss my clients' internal processes, tools, rates of payment, or other such information, without first obtaining permission to do so."

and

"Non-disclosure of clients: I do not disclose my clients'
... See more
General: Some of the optional restrictions would preclude use of TM Town – which is, by the way, why many of us consider the principles behind TM Town inappropriate in relation to confidentiality requirements.

7) "Non-disclosure of processes, rates: I do not discuss my clients' internal processes, tools, rates of payment, or other such information, without first obtaining permission to do so."

and

"Non-disclosure of clients: I do not disclose my clients' identities or contact information, or the identities or contact information of their clients or vendors, without first obtaining permission to do so."

Maybe these two clauses should contain an exception for the Blue Board and other risk management platforms, as they may otherwise preclude rating an outsourcer there. When I use banking, telecoms and similar services, I don't get an option to stop them reporting my credit history to credit history platforms of their choice (which then leak my private data because of sloppy security and incompetent management without any significant consequences for them, and without any compensation being due to the victims).

Our accountants and their staff, as well as our local tax authorities may need access to them, and in the EU we have to report clients' VAT numbers and billing amounts to the tax authorities when the reverse VAT procedure is used.

8) "Secure record-keeping: My customer list(s), invoices and other such records are secured."
"Secured" can mean many different things. Which meaning is intended here? Our accountants and their staff, as well as our local tax authorities may need access to them, and in the EU we have to report clients' VAT numbers and billing amounts to the tax authorities when the reverse VAT procedure is used.

[Edited at 2017-10-26 15:13 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-10-26 15:20 GMT]
Collapse


 

Thomas T. Frost  Identity Verified
Member (2014)
Danish to English
+ ...
Other comments Oct 26, 2017

9) “Illegal activities: If I became aware of any illegal activity, it is my policy to immediately report that to the relevant authorities, and to my client if appropriate.”
Doing this could be a violation of statutory or contractual obligations of secrecy. 98 % say they would do this, which is astonishing. Do translators really believe it is their role to act as informers and police?

10) “Password management: I have a professional approach to passwords that involves (1)
... See more
9) “Illegal activities: If I became aware of any illegal activity, it is my policy to immediately report that to the relevant authorities, and to my client if appropriate.”
Doing this could be a violation of statutory or contractual obligations of secrecy. 98 % say they would do this, which is astonishing. Do translators really believe it is their role to act as informers and police?

10) “Password management: I have a professional approach to passwords that involves (1) strong / long passwords; (2) different passwords for different sites/services; and (3) periodic password rotation.”
I have a list of 236 passwords. Changing them all would require 1-2 days’ work. Do people really do this? Outsourcers’ server passwords rarely change, if ever.

General: Who exactly can see the security information? It says in members' profiles that "This person has a SecurePRO™ card. Because this person is not a ProZ.com Plus subscriber, to view his or her SecurePRO™ card you must be a ProZ.com Business member or Plus subscriber."

So does this mean that Plus subscribers' security information is public? This wouldn't be a good idea, as people with bad intent could target the weak points in translators’ security procedures. No company in their right mind would publish their security procedures. Such information should be restricted to trusted clients approved on a case-by-case basis. Otherwise this is like posting a sign in front of your house telling potential burglars which doors and windows you have secured.
Collapse


 

Reea-Silvia Podeanu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 02:29
Member (2011)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hi... Oct 27, 2017

I am travelling these days and I don't have time to answer. I will answer when I will come back.

 

Reea-Silvia Podeanu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 02:29
Member (2011)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Hi, everybody... Oct 27, 2017

I am back. I am tired and I will read all your kind posts tomorrow if you don't mind.

But I could see that the spark went away fast... The interest disappeared already? And nobody gave me one idea about how the petition should sound like and to whom we should address it?

I know two sites ForceChange and Care2Action where i sign petitions often. And one Romanian, but I don't think it counts. So, any ideas
... See more
I am back. I am tired and I will read all your kind posts tomorrow if you don't mind.

But I could see that the spark went away fast... The interest disappeared already? And nobody gave me one idea about how the petition should sound like and to whom we should address it?

I know two sites ForceChange and Care2Action where i sign petitions often. And one Romanian, but I don't think it counts. So, any ideas?
Collapse


 

Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 01:29
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
To raise this topic again ... Nov 18, 2017

I wonder if national ISO committees are the place to start with an appeal? They influence how the whole thing is constructed.

I have had a bad cold (luckily recovered ) and been busy since the discussion came up, but have thought about it!

The idea of auditing subcontractors looks good on paper, but there have to be limits.
Who is going to pay for the subcontractor's time while the audit is goi
... See more
I wonder if national ISO committees are the place to start with an appeal? They influence how the whole thing is constructed.

I have had a bad cold (luckily recovered ) and been busy since the discussion came up, but have thought about it!

The idea of auditing subcontractors looks good on paper, but there have to be limits.
Who is going to pay for the subcontractor's time while the audit is going on and work has to stop? This is not just a once-over thing. Potentially all our clients could come and ask to audit computers etc. etc. if we let one in. I have 'only' worked for about twenty clients this year, and probably more earlier on. So there could be audits several times a month! Not to mention all the paperwork that would probably ensue...

How does the ISO committee propose to deal with the question of infringing other customers' rights, like not seeing work in progress for other customers?
That could in principle apply just as much to a manufacturer's subcontractors, who might be making products for the customer's competitor when the auditor arrives.

There have to be limits to how much the big firms can walk over small ones - we have our quality concerns and rights too!

As for wording the petition, there is quite a lot of good material in this thread, but of course it would have to be assembled and put in a logical order.
Just to start the ball rolling again...


[Edited at 2017-11-18 22:47 GMT]
Collapse


 

Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:29
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Not an ISO issue Nov 18, 2017

Christine Andersen wrote:
How does the ISO committee propose to deal with the question of infringing other customers' rights, like not seeing work in progress for other customers?

ISO 17100, which tends to be used as the scapegoat by agency staff for all kinds of problems, does not set such criteria or require such audits. If 17100 is mentioned, then the problem almost certainly lies with the way the LSP (agency) interprets these rules.

However, it may be that the issue is related to ISO 27001, and I don't know enough about that to be able to comment - I haven't even read it. It doesn't affect only freelance translators, of course. I think the only practical response, at least for now, is to refuse to work with companies that demand such audits.

Regards,
Dan


 

Reea-Silvia Podeanu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 02:29
Member (2011)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
HI Nov 19, 2017

Hi, Christine. Nice to see you again. I have traveled a lot lately and every other day I was telling myself that I will make some time to write here but...

I still have no idea who is to blame for this. Maybe it is just a trend and the companies think it is cool and make them look more professional if they ad that clause... It is weird though that I hav
... See more
Hi, Christine. Nice to see you again. I have traveled a lot lately and every other day I was telling myself that I will make some time to write here but...

I still have no idea who is to blame for this. Maybe it is just a trend and the companies think it is cool and make them look more professional if they ad that clause... It is weird though that I have explained to the companies who wanted to work with me that the respective clause is a breach of my other NDAs and they didn't say anything.

In the end this clause doesn't help anybody in any way. It doesn't prove the security or helps improve it. If somebody would be really ill intended it would be quite easy with the proper friends or using his own knowledge to hide anything they want and to make the audit perfect.

People ALWAYS find ways to oppose the oppression. They go underground or out of the grid and they always find ways to win in the end. Good always wins.

If we look through the history... nothing that was imposed by force ever resisted! Even the biggest empires fell in the end. Oppression doesn't go a long way. Karma you gather doing it will hit hard sooner or later.

So at least we have to fight this the best way we can... as Dan and the other said we have to reject such contracts for now until we will figure out a better way to fight this. We have to find the cause for it in order to attack it properly.

So we can research and ask around and see what is causing this. My 2 cents.
Collapse


 

Reea-Silvia Podeanu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 02:29
Member (2011)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I am so outraged Nov 29, 2017

I think I have found out one of the reasons of the audits frenzy.

Have you heard of HIPAA agreements? I have just been offered one. Of course, I had to I reject it... along with a good source of work (and money). I simply cannot accept to be monitored like this.

I have found information about it here (public presentations):

... See more
I think I have found out one of the reasons of the audits frenzy.

Have you heard of HIPAA agreements? I have just been offered one. Of course, I had to I reject it... along with a good source of work (and money). I simply cannot accept to be monitored like this.

I have found information about it here (public presentations):

https://www.slideshare.net/Msfent1/hipaa-audio-presentation

https://www.lssc.edu/staff/HRPayrollBenefits/FCSRMC%202017%20HIPAA%20Presentation.pdf


https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/covered-entities/sample-business-associate-agreement-provisions/index.html

[Edited at 2017-11-29 15:10 GMT]
Collapse


 

Reea-Silvia Podeanu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 02:29
Member (2011)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I didn't check until now but... Nov 29, 2017

Audit clauses may be prevalent in US companies' agreements. If I remember well, at least several of the agencies who had this clause in their contracts were from US. I don't remember from where the others were but I think they were also from US. So this trend may be caused by the US (abusive) laws regarding privacy.

On a funny note, it is simply hysterical that those who spy on us in every way, including on all social media, phones, computers etc. who built psychological profiles wh
... See more
Audit clauses may be prevalent in US companies' agreements. If I remember well, at least several of the agencies who had this clause in their contracts were from US. I don't remember from where the others were but I think they were also from US. So this trend may be caused by the US (abusive) laws regarding privacy.

On a funny note, it is simply hysterical that those who spy on us in every way, including on all social media, phones, computers etc. who built psychological profiles when spying on every virtual and real life habit we have, shamelessly pretend to monitor us so that we won't leak private data! Really!

[Edited at 2017-11-29 15:17 GMT]
Collapse


 

Reea-Silvia Podeanu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 02:29
Member (2011)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Update Jan 5, 2018

Dear all,

I have researched a lot lately and I have found out that the laws in USA and EU are those who created this trend. In UE at least they intend to make companies to have the customers agree to each and every data usage (which is just another pain in the neck because companies will continue to do what they want and they will just force us, IF we want to receive their services or products, to sign agreements about our personal data usage).

And they intend to make
... See more
Dear all,

I have researched a lot lately and I have found out that the laws in USA and EU are those who created this trend. In UE at least they intend to make companies to have the customers agree to each and every data usage (which is just another pain in the neck because companies will continue to do what they want and they will just force us, IF we want to receive their services or products, to sign agreements about our personal data usage).

And they intend to make all the people who have access to other people personal data to be checked and verified all the time, which is absolutely stupid, illogical, and unrealistic. As I said before if someone is really ill intended and determined to get what they want they can get what they want because the security of internet is only an illusion.

Also the vice-versa works too, someone determined to keep working no matter what and seem all right for the audits can with the „right” ill intended „friends” to cheat any audit and appear clean each and every time (as I said in my previous messages when I was outraged about these laws)

These laws, like all the abusive laws in this world are not for the bad people, but for the good, correct, and honest people like us who just want to live and work in peace and stupidly hope they will be allowed to do it... Which is not going to happen with these laws.

What I have found out in the last few weeks worries me a lot. And apparently nobody does anything because we feel vulnerable when we are separate... and this way we will not even realize when we will be force to accept laws and actions we never thought even in our worst nightmares that we will accept. Because they will make things in such a way that we will wake up one morning or even each and every morning just to realize we have lost yet another freedom, another piece of intimacy and private life...

In fact what authorities are trying to do is to just gain more and more control over us Big Brotherly type and even like in the book I have mentioned before, 1984, and they could not care less about the so called privacy of customers.

Well, just wanted to let you know that a petition or any action taken would have to be addressed to UE and USA and member states' governments in order to have those clauses removed. These are the facts.

Have a lovely day and enjoy your freedom as long as you still can.
Collapse


 

John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 19:29
Member (2008)
French to English
A clash of needs Jan 5, 2018

Henry Dotterer wrote:

The requirement is coming from attorneys in global 500 firms, who are in some cases reacting to legislation passed by governments, and the indications are that this issue is likely to increase, not decrease. Translators are not driving the phenomenon, ProZ.com is not driving it; SecurePRO is simply a tool created in light of the trends. The idea that it could somehow be a cause is contradicted by both the chronology and common sense. Governments are not passing laws based on features in ProZ.com forms.


I think what we are seeing here is the clash of two current phenomena - the drive by corporations for greater security and the rise of independent workers, where their clients have little to no control over their working conditions. These clauses indicate an attempt to extend conditions applicable to employees to people who are not employees. According to the McKinsey Global Institute, 20% to 30% of the working age population in Europe and the United States engage in "independent work". That's a lot of people - 162 million, the study estimates.

The corporations are bigger but there are a lot more independent workers, including translators. So I agree that the issue is going to increase, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the corporations are going to ultimately prevail.


 

Reea-Silvia Podeanu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 02:29
Member (2011)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I know for a fact... Jan 5, 2018

... from very reliable sources that for example certain big companies are not happy with this intention of EU to tighten the leash. Nobody is happy with this. It is simply a desperate need and obsession of control from the part of certain stakeholders.

[Edited at 2018-01-05 17:52 GMT]


 

Reea-Silvia Podeanu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 02:29
Member (2011)
English to Romanian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Well... Jan 5, 2018

John Fossey wrote:

The corporations are bigger but there are a lot more independent workers, including translators. So I agree that the issue is going to increase, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the corporations are going to ultimately prevail.


I hope you are right...


 

Christine Andersen  Identity Verified
Denmark
Local time: 01:29
Member (2003)
Danish to English
+ ...
It's a drop in the ocean, but one company did change its terms Jun 29, 2018

A client I had worked for occasionally - and one with an excellent Blue Board record - sent me some updated Terms and Conditions, including an audit clause, and I refused to sign.

I was clearly not the only person to object, but I had quite a good dialogue with the person in charge of the T&Cs. He started out by saying the agency could not have 20 or 30 different sets of terms for all their subcontractors. I pointed out that they could not have a single 'one size fits all' agreement
... See more
A client I had worked for occasionally - and one with an excellent Blue Board record - sent me some updated Terms and Conditions, including an audit clause, and I refused to sign.

I was clearly not the only person to object, but I had quite a good dialogue with the person in charge of the T&Cs. He started out by saying the agency could not have 20 or 30 different sets of terms for all their subcontractors. I pointed out that they could not have a single 'one size fits all' agreement either, partly because of the indemnity clause, and partly because the audit clause infringed NDAs signed with other clients. Quite apart from the fact that it would infringe his NDA if another client came along with similar requests.

I thought that was the end of the story, but he came back with a revised set of terms and conditions which I did sign.

I think that is the way to go. Obviously we cannot sign clauses and contracts which we have no chance of complying with. Sooner or later someone will take them seriously, and anyone who has signed will be in trouble.

It is possible. Even if we have to take clients one at a time, the fact that some can change their terms and conditions is a positive sign.
Collapse


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3 4 5 6] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Audit clause in freelance contracts - a breach of the other clients' NDAs

Advanced search







PerfectIt consistency checker
Faster Checking, Greater Accuracy

PerfectIt helps deliver error-free documents. It improves consistency, ensures quality and helps to enforce style guides. It’s a powerful tool for pro users, and comes with the assurance of a 30-day money back guarantee.

More info »
SDL Trados Studio 2019 Freelance
The leading translation software used by over 250,000 translators.

SDL Trados Studio 2019 has evolved to bring translators a brand new experience. Designed with user experience at its core, Studio 2019 transforms how new users get up and running, helps experienced users make the most of the powerful features.

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search