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Off topic: Poem on Lemuria - which language is this?
Thread poster: Sabine Marianne Knorr
Sabine Marianne Knorr
Germany
Local time: 17:14
Member (2005)
Spanish to German
+ ...
Jul 8, 2009

Dear fellow translators,
I am curious if anybody recognizes the following language or dialect. It is a poem which has been received/channelled by a medium - I will transcribe only the first part of it (as it is quite long). It could well be a very ancient language or a "secret" language (!?)...

LEMURIA, LEMURIA

Ma valle san o nomine
vranutra mari am
ta luna ara tu so re
pare uma valle san.

O santa re so ameno
nutiana i me tam
ma nua ora su me no
lana tu ma ira san.

I nomini ma ira no
solo ameno i ma
so lana tu so mina ro
anno ameno si va.

Looking forward to your opinions!
Thanks in advance
Sabine


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eugeniehugo
Local time: 17:14
English to French
+ ...
lingua franca Jul 8, 2009

Hi, I'm no specialist of the language, but have you thought of lingua franca ? there is onnly one form for the verbs and it's mainly spoken, so there are very few written records of it. There is one though is "le bourgeois gentilhomme" by Molière when the so-called Mamammouchi speaks.

Good luck
Eugénie


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toniawind
Local time: 12:14
Spanish to English
+ ...
I have no idea...but thought your posting was interesting... Jul 8, 2009

Sabine,

Hi. Unfortunately, I have no idea what language or dialect this poem might be. I was, however, interested in your posting because you mentioned it was received by a medium. Is this a "one off" type of project you are working on, or do you frequently work on these kinds of projects?

I am asking because I am Spiritist myself and have worked on a number of PT to EN Spritist projects involving channeled works.

Thanks in advance and best regards,

Tonia


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Alan R King
Local time: 17:14
Basque to English
+ ...
a couple of thoughts to bear in mind Jul 8, 2009

There is no such language as "lingua franca" (in its usual sense), it refers to a type of language, not a specific language.

If the text was transmitted and written down (i.e. converted from speech to writing) by someone who did not know anything about the language, there is no reason to think that (s)he would know where the word divisions are. This is not self-evident from the flow of speech when you don't understand what you're hearing. Therefore the particular way the words are divided should not be taken as a basic part of the "data" in that case. For example, the right question is not "what language has a word 'ma', a word 'san', a word 'o' etc.?" It would be better to try to recognise a string of sounds like "mavallesanonomine" as something...

Also there is a natural tendency for a (linguistically untrained) listener to an unintelligible language to unconsciously assimilate what they hear to the language they do speak. This would be likely to affect choices of word division (see the last paragraph) and other things too. It would therefore be relevant to ask what the native language of the person who wrote it down is in order to attempt to "cancel out" that interference factor when trying to unravel the text.

Last suggestion: check out Roma (gypsy language)...


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LEXpert  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:14
Member (2008)
Croatian to English
+ ...
The occultly postulated "Lemurian"? Jul 8, 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemuria_(continent)

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José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 12:14
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Fijian Jul 8, 2009

Lextek Language Identifier, from http://www.languageidentifier.com says it's Fijian.

More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fijian_language .


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Alan R King
Local time: 17:14
Basque to English
+ ...
Not Fijian Jul 8, 2009

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

Lextek Language Identifier, from http://www.languageidentifier.com says it's Fijian.

More info at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fijian_language .



Nice try Lextek. But it isn't Fijian...


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Russell Jones  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:14
Italian to English
Lingua franca Jul 8, 2009

Alan, Lingua Franca was a pidgin Italian, a Mediterranean trade language used from
the Middle Ages until the nineteenth century, named by the Arabs after the Franks who colonised Italy in 774 A.D.

I have no idea whether that is what this is but it seems feasible.


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Rod Walters  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 00:14
Japanese to English
Made up language Jul 8, 2009

I'm always impressed by Alan's learning and the clarity of his expression.

Isn't it just as likely to be a made up language?

"Alternative Realities - The paranormal, mystic and the transcendent in human experience" by Leonard George includes a number of examples of speaking in tongues and channeled languages that are made up based on languages that the speaker is familiar with.


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toniawind
Local time: 12:14
Spanish to English
+ ...
Fascinating ideas... Jul 9, 2009

I have been following the posts for this topic, and think that it is really quite fascinating. There are tons of links online for "Lemuria", and there are a number of Spiritist links (most in Portuguese) about the long-lost place. Just to list a couple I came across: http://www.crystalinks.com/lemuria.html and http://www.lemuria.net/.

As far as the language goes, I tend to go more with what Alan and Russell suggested. In (trying) to make sense of the poem, it seems as though the first stanza refers to Lemuira as "my nameless valley". Online there are a number of references to Lemuria being the "nameless continent", etc.

As far as Rod's post, I think that it is a valid point too. It might well be a made up language. But there are countless examples of mediums channeling texts (whole novels) in languages they have never even heard of before in their lives. That is the true beauty of people who are gifted with this rare "talent". How is it possible? There is no logical explanation. In the same way that there is no way to explain how near illiterate people have been able to write novel after novel using extremely advanced vocabulary and writing on subject matters about which they have no prior knowledge (psychographic mediums).

I don't mean to turn this into a spiritual discussion, as the whole point of the posting is to discover in what language this poem was written. It was just interesting to see a posting about a mediunic text here on ProZ!

Best of luck and I look forward to reading more theories!


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Rod Walters  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 00:14
Japanese to English
Some sort of creole? Jul 9, 2009

Maybe it's a creole based on a romance language.

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Alan R King
Local time: 17:14
Basque to English
+ ...
I stand corrected Jul 9, 2009

Lingua franca: of course I had in mind the usual term "lingua franca" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_franca ). Eugeniehugo and Russell are talking about the Mediterranean Lingua Franca ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Lingua_Franca ) which "was a pidgin language used as a Lingua franca in the Mediterranean Basin from the 11th to the 19th century and is the original basis for the word lingua franca" (Wikipedia).

To quote a bit further, concerning the languages on which it was based: "Based mostly on Catalan, Italian and Provençal in the eastern Mediterranean, it later came to have more Spanish and Portuguese elements, especially on the Barbary coast. It also borrowed from French, Greek and Arabic." (ibid)

A selection of extant Lingua Franca texts (or rather texts claimed to be in LF: I'm not sure how far the literary sources are to be trusted as authentic linguistic samples), see http://www.uwm.edu/~corre/franca/edition3/texts.html and the Wikipedia article cited for further links.

I don't think the present text is Lingua Franca though...

Apologies for my mistake and thanks for teaching me something new


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Steve Booth  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:14
Member (2007)
English to Arabic
+ ...
just a thought Jul 9, 2009

could it be lemurian

if the lemurian people are now living under amountain in california ??

there are a few songs floating about in lemurian on the web


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chica nueva
Local time: 04:14
Chinese to English
Lobsang Rampa's 'The Third Eye' ... Jul 9, 2009

toniawind wrote:
...
As far as Rod's post, I think that it is a valid point too. It might well be a made up language. But there are countless examples of mediums channeling texts (whole novels) in languages they have never even heard of before in their lives. That is the true beauty of people who are gifted with this rare "talent". How is it possible? There is no logical explanation. In the same way that there is no way to explain how near illiterate people have been able to write novel after novel using extremely advanced vocabulary and writing on subject matters about which they have no prior knowledge (psychographic mediums).
...
Best of luck and I look forward to reading more theories!


Hello Tonia
'channeling novels', 'psychographic mediums'?
Perhaps you have you heard of Lobsang Rampa? 'The Third Eye' made quite an impression on me ...
Lesley

[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobsang_Rampa http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Third_Eye_(book)
'[The Third Eye] may be an early example of the New Age genre of channeling books.'


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Anastasia Naoumi  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 18:14
English to Greek
Probably of Romance origin Jul 9, 2009

I would say this is a sort of romance language, perhaps a kind of creole language. It could be the lingua franca of the Mediterranean as well but I've never seen any written sample of it so I can only surmise.

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