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Which CAT tool would you use for a big but not too fancy Web site ?
Thread poster: Maurice Devroye

Maurice Devroye
United States
Local time: 06:07
English to French
Jul 23, 2010

Here is the situation: we need to translate a Web site of about 150 screens/pages consisting mainly of text and hyperlinks, nothing very fancy. The Web site is in Cold Fusion and the client has no idea how to properly localize the material. After we used a site-ripper, a decision was made to use Trados 2007 in order to come up with a TM for the project. We are now dealing with 150 TTX files + a TM for consistency + a glossary for the client’s preferred terminology. After running an Apsic QA program, we discovered a long list of errors in the TTX files which had to be fixed before delivery. The plan is to eventually convert everything back to HTML for a final proof. All these complicated steps have delayed the project, hence the questions below.

1. How would you have handled this situation?
2. Knowing what the TTX format does to an hyperlink, f.i., was Trados 2007 a good choice in this context or
3. Do you think that a dedicated html editor like Catscraddle would have been a more appropriate, user-friendly and still powerful enough CAT tool? (*)

(*) My experience with Catscraddle dates back to 2004. I would really appreciate comments regarding the latest versions of the software.

Thank you.


[Modifié le 2010-07-23 19:46 GMT]


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Roberto Lipani  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:07
Italian to English
+ ...
Cat tools and websites Jul 23, 2010

Good Evening,
I read the subject of your forum and, since I am very interested in website localization and translation, I thought to suggest my opinion.
Actually, I must admit I am not very fond of translation memories but, through a growing experience, I understand they can help a lot.
With regard to the software, you may try Alchemy Publisher 3.0 and Catalyst 8.0 (the latter provides high throughput in case of websites localization (it has TM and check tools to provide high quality translation.
I wrote to the website to have further information (these products are available here on proz.com) and the staff was very kind. They can also send a 7 days trial version to try the product before buying
Please, let me know. Hope I have been helpful

Best Regards

Roberto


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Arabictranslate  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 12:07
German to Arabic
+ ...
Transit is one of the best solutions Jul 23, 2010

Hi Maurice,

Transit is one of the best tools in many types of translation\localization projects for many reasons.

1- It perfectly helps keeping the layout (tags, etc.) and minimizes the efforts required to keep the layout and links,
2- More significant in Transit is the possibility to work in each of your 150 files separately and\or to work on them as a single virtual file.

This means for example you can make global find and replace and also QA reviews without having to open each of the 150 files individually again and again.
Only this option makes Transit a very powerful tool in many types of projects.

3- On the other hand, in the new Transit NXT there is also the live preview window\panel, that allows you to see a preview for both source and target HTML files or for only one of them.

4- Another advanced unique feature in Transit XV and Transit NXT is the possibility to use the so called "Regular Expressions", which is a real powerful feature, that enables the user, who knows about Reg. Expressions, to filter texts and also to search and replace with very advanced options and flexibility.

I hope this would be helpful for you.

Thanks

ATT

[تم التعديل في 2010-07-24 03:58 GMT]


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Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 12:07
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
TagEditor was perfectly OK Jul 23, 2010

Personally I think that your approach was not incorrect at all. TagEditor does not "do something" to the tags. I have translated many HTML files with TagEditor and as long as you are aware that you have to work carefully with tags, files output perfectly fine.

Your approach is what I would have done a year ago.

Today we use MemoQ and are a lot happier than with Trados and TagEditor for a number of reasons (both in usability and in quality assurance). We can handle that amount of files in a much easier fashion and with a much better teamwork. For instance, we are now translating nearly 400 files and it all feels nicely under control.


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Pablo Bouvier  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:07
German to Spanish
+ ...
Which CAT tool would you use for a big but not too fancy Web site ? Jul 23, 2010

Maurice Devroye wrote:

Here is the situation: we need to translate a Web site of about 150 screens/pages consisting mainly of text and hyperlinks, nothing very fancy. The Web site is in Cold Fusion and the client has no idea how to properly localize the material. After we used a site-ripper, a decision was made to use Trados 2007 in order to come up with a TM for the project. We are now dealing with 150 TTX files + a TM for consistency + a glossary for the client’s preferred terminology. After running an Apsic QA program, we discovered a long list of errors in the TTX files which had to be fixed before delivery. The plan is to eventually convert everything back to HTML for a final proof. All these complicated steps have delayed the project, hence the questions below.

1. How would you have handled this situation?
2. Knowing what the TTX format does to an hyperlink, f.i., was Trados 2007 a good choice in this context or
3. Do you think that a dedicated html editor like Catscraddle would have been a more appropriate, user-friendly and still powerful enough CAT tool? (*)

(*) My experience with Catscraddle dates back to 2004. I would really appreciate comments regarding the latest versions of the software.

Thank you.


[Modifié le 2010-07-23 19:46 GMT]


Give a try to Aquino's Devlopment Webbudget application.


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Maurice Devroye
United States
Local time: 06:07
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Comments and suggestions well appreciated Jul 23, 2010

Thank you, all. Unfortunately I cannot try every solution suggested. What I am mostly interested in: the Transit feature allowing editing of ALL files as described by ATT. Do the other tools offer anything similar to that powerful search/replace command? It seems to me this is the global edit command a translator needs.

Also a big plus: being able to see the target screen as you are translating. Quite a big advantage compared to TTX, which leaves us stuck with segmented text and mysterious looking tags.

So far, nobody has mentioned Catscradle which used to be free software and is now (@ $50 an individual license) probably still the cheapest of the CAT tools.

Any experienced users among us?


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Soonthon LUPKITARO(Ph.D.)  Identity Verified
Thailand
Local time: 17:07
Member (2004)
English to Thai
+ ...
SDLX Jul 24, 2010

I use SDLX for big website projects since I can copy & paste between MS Word and SDLX to use good and rapid editing functions of MS Word and SDLX at the same time e.g. auto-translate, find & replace all, batch processing. Final formatting in SDLX after pasting back translation from MS Word is a bit annoying for complicated tags, however.

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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:07
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
My vote goes to OmegaT Jul 24, 2010

Maurice Devroye wrote:
1. The Web site is in Cold Fusion and the client has no idea how to properly localize the material.
2. After we used a site-ripper...
3. ...a decision was made to use Trados 2007 in order to come up with a TM for the project. We are now dealing with 150 TTX files + a TM for consistency + a glossary for the client’s preferred terminology.
4. After running an Apsic QA program, we discovered a long list of errors in the TTX files which had to be fixed before delivery.
5. The plan is to eventually convert everything back to HTML for a final proof.


If this was me, I'd use OmegaT, but I'm not sure if using OmegaT would have resulted in any less work, because you'd still have to do QA on the TMs.

OmegaT would work directly on the HTML files, and you'd load the entire web site into a single OmegaT "project". You can do this even if you split the work among various translators (just tell each translator which files he should translate and which files he should not touch), if you want all translators to have access to all the files, for concordance search purposes.

OmegaT creates a TMX file, which you can QA in Apsic or anywhere, and then you simply drop the updated TMX into place and reload the project (and changes are applied to the HTML files instantly).

The one downside of OmegaT is that non-unique segments are translated with the same text, so if your site contains such segments, you should translate those pages in a separate project, but you can still use the TM from the other files to leverage it.


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Maurice Devroye
United States
Local time: 06:07
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
OmegaT has been moved and seconded Jul 24, 2010

Somebody - not a Proz member - sent me this interesting comment privately:

"Catscradle is not the cheapest CAT tool; OmegaT is cheaper, since it is free. It handles entire web sites, retaining the structure: you simply drop the website, with all its subfolders, graphics, etc., into a folder, and the translated website appears in another folder as you translate. It works directly on HTML without converting it to anything.

It has no preview function, but since producing the target files is virtually instantaneous, you can keep the translated webpage open in your browser and simply refresh it.

It also has no global search and replace, but it does have autopropagation for full matches, and you can run a search and replace by opening the translation memory in a text editor if necessary."


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Pablo Bouvier  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:07
German to Spanish
+ ...
Which CAT tool would you use for a big but not too fancy Web site ? Jul 24, 2010

Maurice Devroye wrote:

Thank you, all. Unfortunately I cannot try every solution suggested. What I am mostly interested in: the Transit feature allowing editing of ALL files as described by ATT. Do the other tools offer anything similar to that powerful search/replace command? It seems to me this is the global edit command a translator needs.

Also a big plus: being able to see the target screen as you are translating. Quite a big advantage compared to TTX, which leaves us stuck with segmented text and mysterious looking tags.

So far, nobody has mentioned Catscradle which used to be free software and is now (@ $50 an individual license) probably still the cheapest of the CAT tools.

Any experienced users among us?


First you accept a job without knowing exactly which tool to use. Then you ask for advice here and you get offered several alternatives from the colleague's experience point of view, but you have not the time to test them, neither to quickly read the websistes which explains their characteristics. If I were you, I would outsource the job to someone who knows how to handle it to avoid further problems.

By the way, if nobody has mentioned CatsCradle as a computer assisted translation tool to translate websites, I would think there should be some reason why nobody seems to use it. Imho, it is a a weak tool (not a bad one) in comparison to other more expensive, but more complete and professional website translation tools too. Have a nice weekend.




[Editado a las 2010-07-24 12:53 GMT]


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Maurice Devroye
United States
Local time: 06:07
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
A little background Jul 24, 2010

We used CatsCradle in 2004 to translate the official Web site of the Irish presidency of the European Union. The project, as the presidency, lasted six months. CatsCradle performed well and allowed us, French and Gaelic translators, to work fast and efficiently. The Web site is no longer available on line. Also: for that project and the one described here, I was/am a team member, not a decision maker.

Have a nice weekend, Pablo.




[Modifié le 2010-07-24 14:12 GMT]


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 12:07
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
What does Trados 2007 do to a hyperlink? Jul 24, 2010

Maurice Devroye wrote:
2.vKnowing what the TTX format does to an hyperlink, f.i., was Trados 2007 a good choice in this context...


What does Trados 2007 do to a hyperlink that is so bad?


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Alexey Ivanov  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 13:07
English to Russian
Alchemy Catalyst Jul 24, 2010

In my experience Alchemy Catalyst is the best solution for translation of any HTML content and web sites especially, irrespective of their complexity. It has many advantages compared to other CAT tools. First of all, you can view your content either in string mode where you see the source and the target string and the length of each. That is very important because the space for the text is often limited. And secondly, you can immediately switch to visual mode and see the result with all of the translated text and the images displayed, or you can select either vertical or horizontal split of the main window and display the page in both the string view and the visual view. In the navigation pane the result of translation/reviewing/signing off is reflected by automatically ticking off each finished file as soon as you finish all of the strings in it, so you easily see where you are in your work. The navigation pane can be hidden with a click on a button. Some of the frequent tasks are automated (like checking for missing "&" ). Another convenient feature is that it can use Trados translation memories. The tool is rather expensive, but in my view it is worth every penny they ask for it.

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Maurice Devroye
United States
Local time: 06:07
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
TTX has all the right functions (...) thank God, that cumbersome format is being discarded by Trados Jul 26, 2010

To Samuel: One hyperlink is manageable. When you have to fit a list of 10 in the margin of the page, you need to do a lot of previewing and tag moving in order to check the layout carefully. But I suppose this would be the case with any software.

In fact, TTX has all the functions a translator can wish for (incl. bilingual preview mode) and some but TTX does not help very much a proofreader/editor who needs to be able to 1. Search through multiple files and 2. Issue general replacement of text if needed when reviewing the entire project.

Some tools mentioned in this discussion offer more flexible commands to do just that, it seems, and that should facilitate the editing process greatly.

As you know, Trados 2009 has done away with TTX but I have not done any Studio project so far. Hence the next question: how does a proofreader perform QA when there are no bilingual documents to work with but only, I believe, the source and target documents in their original formats (DOC, RTF, HTML or PPT)? Any experiences/ideas?

Thanks again.


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Maurice Devroye
United States
Local time: 06:07
English to French
TOPIC STARTER
Never mind the previous post - here is the answer! Jul 28, 2010

In Trados 2009, the proofreader opens a translated package for review and has a host of text editing tools (Spellchecker, AutoSuggest) and text formatting tools to choose from (the same tools made available to the translator).

I suppose this is what SDL refers to when saying that "with Trados, QA is performed in real time". It remains to be seen (IMO) how these functions compare with other QA tools like the popular Apsic report.

To conclude, let me send the reader back to one of our 2008 topics about QA:

http://eng.proz.com/forum/localization/116000-what_are_the_secrets_of_a_successful_localization_qa.html

and to an excellent review of Trados 2009 from L'observatoire de la traduction (in French):

http://www.anyword.fr/blog/2009/06/05/sdl-trados-studio-2009-loutil-de-traduction-concu-pour-les-traducteurs/

Have a good day. MD

[Edited at 2010-07-28 15:35 GMT]


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