| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | Opinion regarding non-degree translators in proz Thread poster: Dimitris Papageorgiou
|
|---|
| Profile and language direction | Mar 26, 2010 |
Seriously, rethink your profile (take a look at some top Prozians'), rewrite it, stop putting yourself down, and stick to English>Greek translation. I don't know Greek grammar but, in English, pronouns and proper nouns, such as "I" and "Proz", are written with an initial capital. Be careful with your Greek grammar and stick to it when translating.
[Edited at 2010-03-26 14:28 GMT]
| | | | S P Willcock (X) 
Local time: 16:03
German to English
+ ...
| EU and other careers | Mar 26, 2010 |
Harry Heijkoop wrote:
Bottom line is: you will not be able to translate for the European Union because they only want certified translators, but the rest of the world is just interested in two things:
1) How much do you cost?
2) How good is your work? just to quibble; even the Directorate-General for Translation in Brussels does not always demand a degree or qualification from translation staff. given the number of language pairs they have to deal with, and the vanishing rarity of some of these pairs, they would be fools to insist on this.
to repeat what everyone else has been saying: drop your attempts to translate *into* English.
revise your profile to tell clients what you *can* do, not what you haven't yet.
don't expect ProZ membership to pay off the first month, or even necessarily the first year.
| | | |
Tatty wrote:
Efreitag is right. You have to do something about your profile page, seriously, you don't come across well.
Good luck to you.
I am going to fight the urge to say anything else and remain as polite and professional as Tatty on this one.
| | | | Suzan Hamer
Netherlands
Local time: 15:03
English
+ ...
| I agree with efreitag, rifraf, edwal and Luisa | Mar 26, 2010 |
[quote]Luisa Ramos, CT wrote:
Seriously, rethink your profile (take a look at some top Prozians'), rewrite it, stop putting yourself down, and stick to English>Greek translation. I don't know Greek grammar but, in English, pronouns and proper nouns, such as "I" and "Proz", are written with an initial capital. Be careful with your Greek grammar and stick to it when translating.
Your worst enemy in this endeavor, to paraphrase your profile, is not the perceptions of some people about your lack of a degree. It is your incorrect English. And putting yourself down and pointing out your self-perceived "weaknesses" don't help much either. Tell people what you do do well, what you can do for them. Why they need you.
There's a good deal more to translation than simply understanding the source language. You must also be able to write fluently and correctly in the target language. I also do not have a degree in translation, but I am a very good and careful writer. I've been told several times that I have won a job simply because my writing was better than other candidates.
If you don't see the errors yourself in your profile, have someone else proofread it for you, preferably a native speaker of English. I'm tempted to offer to do it for you myself (for free) but I'm so busy with work from clients who found me on ProZ.com (via my profile), I probably can't find the time to do it.
[Edited at 2010-03-26 15:21 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-03-26 15:29 GMT]
| | |
|
|
|
A big thanks for your advice. I will make an effort in all "fronts" and see the outcome.
I need to say though that some were "absolute" in their remarks-i must prey now that this post does not "fall" in the hands of clients.
Things were already difficult for me, some made it even harder.
I am very good computer user.
I would like to watch some of you(2-3 from this post) making terrible mistakes in the usage of their PC and me coming and saying... See more A big thanks for your advice. I will make an effort in all "fronts" and see the outcome.
I need to say though that some were "absolute" in their remarks-i must prey now that this post does not "fall" in the hands of clients.
Things were already difficult for me, some made it even harder.
I am very good computer user.
I would like to watch some of you(2-3 from this post) making terrible mistakes in the usage of their PC and me coming and saying how hilarious you are because you cannot open a file or write a code snippet.
[Edited at 2010-03-26 17:49 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-03-26 17:51 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Don't be discouraged | Mar 26, 2010 |
Dimitris,
Some of the reply comments you received were perhaps not offered in the most nurturing tone, but if you ignore that aspect, it seems that you have been offered a number of constructive comments,
1. No, you do not need a degree in translation to compete with all others. Some agencies will filter applicants based on whether they have a degree, but I would say that most don't. I don't have a degree in translation, and that has not kept me from getting good work a... See more Dimitris,
Some of the reply comments you received were perhaps not offered in the most nurturing tone, but if you ignore that aspect, it seems that you have been offered a number of constructive comments,
1. No, you do not need a degree in translation to compete with all others. Some agencies will filter applicants based on whether they have a degree, but I would say that most don't. I don't have a degree in translation, and that has not kept me from getting good work and cultivating happy clients.
2. Over and over, everywhere you look you will see the recommendation that aspiring translators translate only into their native language. Don't take this as a personal dig. There is good reason for this. I work from Spanish, Portuguese and French into English. I grew up speaking Spanish and spent many years in industry working with Portuguese and French speakers. I can step in to offer casual help when I overhear a tourist or businessperson struggling from one of these languages into English. However, when it comes to professional written business communications, I do not consider my written command of any of these languages to be so good as compete with native speakers who also write well and have expertise in the fields I work in. Where I do feel confident and competent to compete is from those languages into English. The message then? Play to your strength.
3. Translators must be able to write well in their target language. I don't read Greek, so I don't know if the translation sample on your profile page is well-written or not, but if it is, then that is your strength. Play to it.
4. I don't see any major problems on your profile page, so presumably you have already removed the material that evoked criticism from others. (I agree that if you are holding out yourself as a translator into English, the types of errors in your post would be disconcerting to a potential client. But if you are holding yourself out as a translator of English into Greek, you don't need to worry overly since in the latter case you are not claiming to have native competence in English. So in the forums, I think it's most important to try to get your point across as best you can, and if you're in the English forum but that's not your native language, then it is understood that perhaps your writing won't be perfect. When it comes to the texts you use to promote your business, however, you must make sure that they are well-written and have them reviewed by a qualified native speaker if they are not in your native language. The reality for all of us is that "you are what you write" when it comes to marketing, and you have only one chance to make a first impression.) Be comforted that your pared down profile, without the information that evoked criticism, does not look any more spare than many profile pages on ProZ. If you want to expand it, keep a tight focus: identify your strengths and play to them; as you become aware of weaknesses, find ways to develop in those areas or work around your limitations.
5. When I started out as a full-time freelancer, the advice I received was play to your strengths, don't price yourself too low, don't overpromise, expect to sit a long time (!), and know that it will take about three years to establish a solid portfolio of repeat clients. So, your experience of not seeing much benefit in one month is common.
6. When I started out on ProZ, I was told that the first jobs would very quickly pay for my membership. And in fact that was true. I limited my job search to jobs into my native language and fields where I knew I had expertise to offer. And so I started building. ProZ is actually my only marketing device, and for my purposes it is adequate. I didn't get my first jobs immediately, but I did get work within 2-3 months. By the way, I have never had more than the Jobs partial membership, and that has served me well.
7. As in so many things in life, your education and your capabilities only get you so far. Another important determinant of success is how you conduct yourself. So, in your dealings with clients always make sure that you are nothing but professional, transparent and ethical and that you behave as their ally in solving the business communication problem they bring to you. (You don't want to be meddlesome, but you do want to show an appreciation of their business need. I find that clients always are happy to see that I consider us "in this together".) And make sure that you are quick on the draw. Respond to client requests promptly and completely yet briefly. The fact that you are available and value their time will count for a lot in their estimation of you.
Finally, be objective and notice that not all of the responses in this thread were critical and even those that were offered constructive information. It is a community of all types, but really it is a good, helpful community. So take heart, don't give up yet. Go through the ProZ site and review all that it has to offer. Take what you can use. Ignore what you can't. As a friend of mine used to say, "Eat the chicken and leave the bones!" And settle in for the ride and see where it takes you.
Best to you,
Deborah
[Edited at 2010-03-26 18:37 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | It was very nurturing! | Mar 26, 2010 |
Deborah Workman wrote:
Some of the reply comments you received were perhaps not offered in the most nurturing tone, but if you ignore that aspect, it seems that you have been offered a number of constructive comments,
I think the blunt tone of some messages is what will help Dimitris realise that he must polish his profile and probably his knowledge of English if he wants to become a professional translator. In this awfully competitive market (not only in Proz but everywhere), there is no way you can succeed (or survive, for that matter) but to always put your abilities in question, try to improve them, and pay a lot of attention to detail.
Being overconfident about one's linguistic abilities and translation skills is something most of us have suffered, but as they say, youth is an illness that disappears with age.
| | | | | Difference being, of course, .... | Mar 26, 2010 |
Dimitris Papageorgiou wrote:
I would like to watch some of you(2-3 from this post) making terrible mistakes in the usage of their PC and me coming and saying how hilarious you are because you cannot open a file or write a code snippet.
... that they almost certainly do not offer "code snippet writing" as a service for which they actually expect to be paid.
Kapeesh?
| | |
|
|
|
pcovs
Denmark
Local time: 15:03
English to Danish
| We aim to help, not make things harder | Mar 26, 2010 |
Dimitris Papageorgiou wrote:
I need to say though that some were "absolute" in their remarks-i must prey now that this post does not "fall" in the hands of clients.
Things were already difficult for me, some made it even harder.
[Edited at 2010-03-26 17:49 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-03-26 17:51 GMT]
You seem to think that clients would not already have seen this post, and if they did, they would probably not have noticed this mistake had it not been for some posters poiting it out???
Personally, I think more of my clients, and I believe they would have noticed without help ;o)
The point simply is that you claim to be able to translate into English, yet you make such mistakes - I have intentionally not included the latest mistake (which was in the above quoted post), so as to not make potential clients aware that it's there ;o)
I believe all the posters here are really trying to help you, and seriously you should give it great thought whether you would like to promote yourself as being able to translate into English. This is sound advice - not a knock on your head.
| | | | | non offensive messages | Mar 26, 2010 |
I have read all the above posts (useful for me as well) and I do not find any offensive messages addressed to you. I could say I am new here as well and I admit that here I found the greatest web community ever! Be sure that all the colleagues that TOOK THE TIME to reply to your post wanted only to help you with their advice (critical or not).
Could you take a look at their profiles? Most of them are highly professionals, with several years of translation experience, thus you may a... See more I have read all the above posts (useful for me as well) and I do not find any offensive messages addressed to you. I could say I am new here as well and I admit that here I found the greatest web community ever! Be sure that all the colleagues that TOOK THE TIME to reply to your post wanted only to help you with their advice (critical or not).
Could you take a look at their profiles? Most of them are highly professionals, with several years of translation experience, thus you may appreciate their FREE advice and take the best from it to improve your own translator image. They did not blame you for making that mistake in English, they were trying to give you hints, to make you understand your weaknesses. We all have weaknesses and yes, some of us are better in practicing medicine and the rest are simple patients.
Now imagine that your doctor would not give you the right medicine and, as an answer to your eventual complaint, he would say: Ha, I would like to see you giving the right medicine! Isn't it hilarious??? I think it is.
So, my advice is to try first to understand that here on proZ people are willing to help each other, are ready to give FREE professional advices and the only thing they ask back is the collegial respect.
Also, please (re)read your translation sample in Greek and correct all the punctuation errors (no, this is not an offensive message, I am just trying to help you, because potential clients may see them and then you have no chances to make them your clients). ▲ Collapse
| | | | | change of course | Mar 27, 2010 |
Well i think i better stick with computers and management(which is what i studied in the college) and leave translations. Maybe after all it was a bad move.
It is more demanding than i thought.
Taking into consideration what it will need from my side to become a competent translator the above statement truly reflects reality.
I cannot "play" in 3 fields-computers, management, translations.
Making the choice to become a full member was... See more Well i think i better stick with computers and management(which is what i studied in the college) and leave translations. Maybe after all it was a bad move.
It is more demanding than i thought.
Taking into consideration what it will need from my side to become a competent translator the above statement truly reflects reality.
I cannot "play" in 3 fields-computers, management, translations.
Making the choice to become a full member was a far more greater mistake than any English Language mistake i made in this post.
There is only a very small part inside me that wants to continue.
I may after all ask a refund and try again in 2-3 years or even never ▲ Collapse
| | | | | A better approach | Mar 27, 2010 |
Dimitris Papageorgiou wrote:
It is more demanding than i thought.
...
There is only a very small part inside me that wants to continue.
Indeed translation is tremendously demanding. We are expected to produce the maximum quality every time, and 10 years of great translations can be ruined by 3 small bad translations in a row. Welcome to our world!
As for translation as a career, you certainly did not expect to be the CEO of Johnson & Johnson after your first week in business school, or expected to join Google as a developer after your first computer lessons. In the same way you cannot expect to make a living out of translation without specific training in translation.
If this is a field that attracts you, I encourage you to A) take systematic English lessons, with a tutor who helps you pinpoint your weaknesses and correct them; B) take systematic lessons on grammar, spelling, writing... in your mother tongue (even a native speaker of a language must know its rules), and C) do a course on translation, maybe 6 months, maybe a year, ideally at some University (there are nice distance-learning options out there), learn the ropes, and then decide whether this is definitely for you or not.
If after getting training on our trade you feel that you can contribute to this industry with your excellent knowledge in other areas (a knowledge that is sometimes hard to find), I am sure you will perform nicely in translation, and you undoubtedly will find the support of all colleagues here.
Good luck!
| | |
|
|
|
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
If after getting training on our trade you feel that you can contribute to this industry with your excellent knowledge in other areas (a knowledge that is sometimes hard to find), I am sure you will perform nicely in translation, and you undoubtedly will find the support of all colleagues here.
Good luck!
Thank you for your remarks.
We will see how things will go. We are going to try-that is for sure.
I asked for a refund-but that is temporary. When i see that there are some chances that things are going to get better i will become a member again.
I must pave the way first.
For now i might seek a partner to help me.
| | | | JaneD
Sweden
Local time: 15:03
Member (2009)
Swedish to English
+ ...
| Help, if you still need it | May 14, 2010 |
Hi Dimitris,
I have come to this thread rather late, so perhaps you are now more happy with ProZ and your possibilities as a "non-qualified" translator. In any case, I would like to offer some more advice, and - if you like - some concrete help.
Translation qualifications are not essential, and you should be able to make a living as a translator without, but you do have to realise that some clients require them. Whether you feel that you are missing out on too many jo... See more Hi Dimitris,
I have come to this thread rather late, so perhaps you are now more happy with ProZ and your possibilities as a "non-qualified" translator. In any case, I would like to offer some more advice, and - if you like - some concrete help.
Translation qualifications are not essential, and you should be able to make a living as a translator without, but you do have to realise that some clients require them. Whether you feel that you are missing out on too many jobs because you don't have qualifications is something only you can judge. In my language pairs there are still plenty of jobs that don't require credentials.
You should also realise that it takes a while before you will be earning a full-time income as a translator.
To be successful as a translator you do need to have a thorough grasp of your language pair, though - and it is commonly accepted that this means native level. I can see that you no longer list translation into English on your profile, and I think this is wise.
However, this issue is a big disadvantage when you are trying to promote your services on a largely English speaking site such as ProZ. I think everyone makes allowances in the forums, but your English profile must be perfect. My feeling is that a bit of background probably gives a client a better "feel" for your personal qualities, and that this is particularly important when you don't have qualifications to point to. So it's important that your profile says a little about who you are.
If you would like to have someone check your profile for you and make sure the English is right before you put it back on line, I would be happy to do it for you - just contact me via ProZ.
And finally, don't be discouraged - it's just like starting anything else; it's very hard to begin with, but soon you'll be able to look back and wonder how you found it difficult!
Jane ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Buying a subscription is not buying a degree... | May 14, 2010 |
When you subscribed to Proz.com, you probably thought that it was enough for you to get more clients. But what clients are looking for in you, is your profile and what quality services you can offer them. Therefore, don't complain about degrees, but have a look at yourself and ask: What quality services can I offer my clients in line with what I am qualified to do? Test yourself by accepting test translations and see if you pass them, or if some room for improvement is needed. You can take some... See more When you subscribed to Proz.com, you probably thought that it was enough for you to get more clients. But what clients are looking for in you, is your profile and what quality services you can offer them. Therefore, don't complain about degrees, but have a look at yourself and ask: What quality services can I offer my clients in line with what I am qualified to do? Test yourself by accepting test translations and see if you pass them, or if some room for improvement is needed. You can take some refresher courses with Proz.com or any other institution to finetune your skills and learn a lot from colleagues. We all are in an ongoing process of improving ourselves in one area or another.
If your " English are good", that 's fine, but would every client of yours find that it is fine? Could you consider your subscription to Proz.com as a wake-up call for you to make changes and upgrade your skills to fit more in that framework? Many, including myself improved their skills after being subscibed to Proz.com, because they felt the gap between what they were and what they should be to measure up to these high standards.
Just keep courage and go ahead.
Tharcisse Seminega ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Opinion regarding non-degree translators in proz | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
| | Trados Studio 2022 Freelance | The leading translation software used by over 270,000 translators.
Designed with your feedback in mind, Trados Studio 2022 delivers an unrivalled, powerful desktop
and cloud solution, empowering you to work in the most efficient and cost-effective way.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
