Wrong translation (into Italian) on EMA website
Thread poster: Bruno Depascale

Bruno Depascale  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 09:14
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
Dec 1, 2011

Dear translators,
I have recently revised a SPC into Italian.
In such a text, there was the following use taken from a template on the EMA website (http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/regulation/document_listing/document_listing_000134.jsp&murl=menus/regulations/regulations.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac0580022c59&jsenabled=true)
See the document: Appendix I – Statements for use in section 4.6 'pregnancy and lactation' of the summary of product characteristics,
where there is a mistake in the concordance between the word "frequenza" (which is a feminine noun) and the use of:

001 Molto comune (masculine and feminine adjective)
002 Comune (masculine and feminine adjective)
003 Non comune (masculine and feminine adjective)
004 Raro (MASCULINE ADJECTIVE)
005 Molto raro (MASCULINE ADJECTIVE)
006 non nota (la frequenza non può essere definita sulla base dei dati disponibili) (feminine adjective).

Obviously, frequenza can only be followed by feminine adjectives, not masculine like "raro" and "molt raro".
Now, I have corrected this in the translation but the client thinks I have done wrong.
Your opinions would be highly appreciated.
Thank you,
Bruno

[Edited at 2011-12-01 14:24 GMT]


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Emma Goldsmith  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 09:14
Member (2010)
Spanish to English
Errors in QRD templates Dec 1, 2011

Yes, there are indeed errors in the QRD templates. It was discussed here:
http://www.proz.com/forum/medical/210055-new_ema_qrd_templates_:_again_.html

The English "The score line is not intended for breaking the tablet" is mistranslated in Spanish as "La ranura debe utilizarse para fraccionar el comprimido".
I reported it to EMA in October and the error is still there now, despite an assurance that it would be corrected in a "few days".

In your case, I think you're quite right to make the adjectives agree with the feminine noun. Surely your client can't be upset if you correct a grammatical mistake?


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Bruno Depascale  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 09:14
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Thank you for your answer Emma! Dec 1, 2011

I am relieved I am not the only one that encountered such mistakes.
Unfortunately, agencies often take too much for granted what is published on the EMA website.
Indeed, I have found many translations into Italian of SPCs on the web, where the translators had used the EMA template without correcting it.
I will also send an email to EMA then.
Thank you again!


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Catherine GUILLIAUMET  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:14
English to French
+ ...
It's not the frequency but the effect which is ... Dec 1, 2011

Bruno Depascale wrote:

Dear translators,
I have recently revised a SPC into Italian.
In such a text, there was the following use taken from a template on the EMA website (http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/regulation/document_listing/document_listing_000134.jsp&murl=menus/regulations/regulations.jsp&mid=WC0b01ac0580022c59&jsenabled=true)
See the document: Appendix I – Statements for use in section 4.6 'pregnancy and lactation' of the summary of product characteristics,
where there is a mistake in the concordance between the word "frequenza" (which is a feminine noun) and the use of:

001 Molto comune (masculine and feminine adjective)
002 Comune (masculine and feminine adjective)
003 Non comune (masculine and feminine adjective)
004 Raro (MASCULINE ADJECTIVE)
005 Molto raro (MASCULINE ADJECTIVE)
006 non nota (la frequenza non può essere definita sulla base dei dati disponibili) (feminine adjective).

Obviously, frequenza can only be followed by feminine adjectives, not masculine like "raro" and "molt raro".
Now, I have corrected this in the translation but the client thinks I have done wrong.
Your opinions would be highly appreciated.
Thank you,
Bruno

[Edited at 2011-12-01 14:24 GMT]


Hi Bruno,

I understand what you mean, but there is no error in the EMA document (for once ).

It is the same in French :
I don't know Italian, but if the Italian word for "effect" is masculine, all adjectives from 001 to 005 included must be of the same gender than the italian word for effect.
Because it must be understood as "common effect, etc.". It is not the frequency itself which is described here.

In French it gives :
"Très fréquent
Fréquent
Peu fréquent
Rare
Très rare
Fréquence indéterminée (ne peut être estimée sur la base des données disponibles)"

The first 3 French ones are masculine, because they must be understood as meaning "effet très fréquent, etc.", "effet" being masculine. The following 2 are masculine here but the adjective "rare" works for both genders.

So, unfortunately, if the Italian word for "effect" is masculine, your client is right.

Hope this helps
Catherine


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Bruno Depascale  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 09:14
Member (2009)
English to Italian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
something is missing here.. Dec 1, 2011

Catherine GUILLIAUMET wrote:
Hi Bruno,

I understand what you mean, but there is no error in the EMA document (for once ).

It is the same in French :
I don't know Italian, but if the Italian word for "effect" is masculine, all adjectives from 001 to 005 included must be of the same gender than the italian word for effect.
Because it must be understood as "common effect, etc.". It is not the frequency itself which is described here.



Hi Catherine,
thank you for your answer.
Unfortunately, in Italian "effect" is a masculine noun, but if it was like you say, than all the adjective listed should be masculine.
"non nota" is feminine..


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Catherine GUILLIAUMET  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:14
English to French
+ ...
It is like I say :-) Dec 1, 2011

Bruno Depascale wrote:

Catherine GUILLIAUMET wrote:
Hi Bruno,

I understand what you mean, but there is no error in the EMA document (for once ).

It is the same in French :
I don't know Italian, but if the Italian word for "effect" is masculine, all adjectives from 001 to 005 included must be of the same gender than the italian word for effect.
Because it must be understood as "common effect, etc.". It is not the frequency itself which is described here.



Hi Catherine,
thank you for your answer.
Unfortunately, in Italian "effect" is a masculine noun, but if it was like you say, than all the adjective listed should be masculine.
"non nota" is feminine..


Hi Bruno ,

In the official original EN version of the SPC, we have : "not known (cannot be estimated form the available data)", which was rendered in FR as "Fréquence indéterminée (ne peut être estimée sur la base des données disponibles)". I think that in IT, they also meant literally "unkknown frequency". In French, we added the word "fréquence" in the last category in order to get a syntactically good French expression.
If the Italian for "frequency" is feminine, it is normal that the adjective is feminine, and it should be better to add the IT word for frequency, as we did in FR.

In fact, if good IT writing requires the IT equivalent of the word "frequency" before "non nota", there is really an omission here.
It is at this level that there might be a translation error in Italian, not at the 5 ones before

Because in French - and certainly Italian - you cannot say that "a frequency is very frequent", the first 5 must be understood as describing the effect.

This is my "Latin-language speaker" feeling and perception.

Catherine


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