Warning: remember to resave as RTF
Thread poster: Samuel Murray

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 04:56
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Nov 19, 2015

Hello everyone

A client of mine and I discovered that MemoQ will not import bilingual review files if they are saved as DOC, and will not warn the user about that either. So if you get RTF files from a MemoQ client, remember to resave them as RTF before sending them back. Otherwise the client might not notice that when they import it into MemoQ that MemoQ isn't actually importing anything. Personally, I would file this under "terrible bug".

Samuel


 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 05:56
English to Russian
Out of curiosity: mQ saves bilingual rtf as rtf... Nov 19, 2015

...so why do you need to re-save it from rtf to doc and then from doc to rtf again?

 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 04:56
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Why save as DOC Nov 19, 2015

Stepan Konev wrote:
Why do you need to re-save it from rtf to doc and then from doc to rtf again?


Although MS Word can open and save RTF files, RTF is not MS Word's own file format. MS Word performs better if it works on a document in its own format (especially with larger files).

The problem is bigger for the client, because RTF and DOC(X) have the same file icon, so it's not easy to see that you've got the wrong file format. And apparently MemoQ doesn't really do a lot of warning itself.


[Edited at 2015-11-19 11:53 GMT]


 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:56
Finnish to French
Not a bug IMO Nov 19, 2015

I wouldn’t call this a bug: by design, memoQ uses RTF for its bilingual export files. This may not be the optimal format (the same file would be much smaller as DOCX, since DOCX is a zip file), but you just have to accept it as it is. Although this may work for you, the round trip RTF -> DOCX -> RTF may introduce changes that would prevent memoQ from reimporting it, which is why I’d rather keep it as RTF all along.

 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 04:56
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@Dominique Nov 19, 2015

Dominique Pivard wrote:
I wouldn’t call this a bug: by design, memoQ uses RTF for its bilingual export files.


Yes, but what happens if you try to update from bilingual files using a PDF file instead of a DOC file or an RTF file? Does MemoQ complain and tell you that you're [accidentally] trying to update from the wrong file format?


 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:56
Finnish to French
Why PDF? Nov 19, 2015

Why would you use a PDF?! Updating from a two-column RTF will only work if you’re importing an RTF from that precise project. If you try to import anything else, it will either fail or be imported as a separate document. There is no risk the actual document you wanted to update would be accidentally overwritten. Each RTF has a unique identifier (eg. MQ785510 d3e01fac-a3b7-4191-8a2f-ece0628bcbfb) that links it to the document it was originally exported from. And even each segment pair has a unique identifier (eg. 996b3558-288a-4ffb-b3ed-e23ab4fc32ea); it’s formatted using a very tiny font (Tahoma 1 point) below the line number in the first column of the RTF. The mechanism is very robust in my experience.

 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 04:56
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
I think you missed the point Nov 19, 2015

Dominique Pivard wrote:
Why would you use a PDF?!


Asking "what happens if try to use a PDF" does not mean "I really want to use PDF".

I was trying to find out what MemoQ would do if you were to try to update from an unsupported format. In other words, would MemoQ response be different for trying it with a dissimilar format (PDF is very dissimilar from RTF) as for a more similar format (RTF has similarities with DOC).


 

Michael Beijer  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:56
Member (2009)
Dutch to English
+ ...
"I was trying to find out what MemoQ would do if ..." Nov 19, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:

Dominique Pivard wrote:
Why would you use a PDF?!


Asking "what happens if try to use a PDF" does not mean "I really want to use PDF".

I was trying to find out what MemoQ would do if you were to try to update from an unsupported format. In other words, would MemoQ response be different for trying it with a dissimilar format (PDF is very dissimilar from RTF) as for a more similar format (RTF has similarities with DOC).



Why?

Hey, I wonder what would happen if you tried to import a .po file into MultiTrans PRISM? Or a .tbx file into Transit NXT? So many questions, so little timeicon_wink.gif

[Edited at 2015-11-19 17:20 GMT]


 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 05:56
English to Russian
Agree Nov 19, 2015

Looks like you try to think out a problem. Not such an easy task given memoQ's lack of problems...
One memoQ post amongst the other major CAT tool's page full of posts lol
*(Because you used quotes for "terrible bug", I thought it was a kind of joke.)

[Edited at 2015-11-19 17:28 GMT]


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 04:56
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
@Stepan Nov 19, 2015

Stepan Konev wrote:
Looks like you try to think out a problem. Not such an easy task given memoQ's lack of problems...


I'm trying to confirm a problem, but the answerers keep dancing around the issue. I would have thought it should be simple to confirm if MemoQ creates the impression that it successfully imported a bilingual review file if that file is saved in DOC instead of RTF? If no, then what happens? If yes, then does MemoQ create the same impression with files that are not in the RTF/DOC family?

But I'll understand if MemoQ users are unwilling to face this. My initial post was aimed primarily at non-users of MemoQ.


 

Dominique Pivard  Identity Verified
Local time: 05:56
Finnish to French
"Two-column RTF", not "bilingual review" Nov 19, 2015

Samuel Murray wrote:
I would have thought it should be simple to confirm if MemoQ creates the impression that it successfully imported a bilingual review file if that file is saved in DOC instead of RTF?

First of all, the bilingual file created by memoQ for Word users is not called "bilingual review", it is called "Two-column RTF":

2015-11-19_2214.png

Of course, a non-memoQ user wouldn’t know that if they just receive the RTF in question.

Samuel Murray wrote:
My initial post was aimed primarily at non-users of MemoQ.

I would think than non-users of memoQ who receive an RTF created by memoQ for review, translation or whatever would just take what they received, do what they were instructed to do and return the same file after having completed their tasks.

Of course, there are tinkerers who (for whatever reason, maybe just for the fun of it) will want to use OpenOffice instead of MS Word, save it in another format etc. and see what happens, but these people should do their own experiments, at their own risk.

I’ve been using memoQ since 2008, have processed hundreds of two-colum RTF’s and it has never once occured to me I could or should save them in another format. Even if I do have my own copy of memoQ to play with, and even if I am somewhat of a tinkerer myself. It’s just that there are more exciting areas in which to tinker icon_wink.gif


 

Shamien  Identity Verified
Finland
Local time: 05:56
Member (2014)
English to Finnish
+ ...
Wondering... Nov 20, 2015

Umm.. I would actually take it as a given to send a file back in the same format as I've received it, unless the client explicitly informed me otherwise. Saying that we should remember to return originally rtf format file into rtf format after processing it in another format is like returning to file handling 101.

Aside from that, I've also had similar problems with bilingual doc file import. I've solved them by juggling them into rtf first.


 

Stephanie Busch  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 04:56
Member (2010)
English to German
+ ...
Thank you Nov 20, 2015

Thank you, Samuel!

This is certainly something to keep in mind, especially when working with reviewers who are unfamiliar with MemoQ.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 04:56
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Of course.... Nov 20, 2015

Dominique Pivard wrote:
First of all, the bilingual file created by memoQ for Word users is not called "bilingual review", it is called "Two-column RTF".


Yes, but you understood what I meant. And it's kinda funny, isn't it, that the "Two-column RTF" file has five columns (at least, all the ones I get from MemoQ clients do). If you know of a better generic term for these types of files, let me know.

Shamien wrote:
Umm.. I would actually take it as a given to send a file back in the same format as I've received it.


I agree, but with RTF, DOC and DOCX the lines are often blurred, and it can be easy to miss the format change due to the fact that the icons for these three file types are very similar or identical.

I have seen files go from RTF to DOC to DOCX (and vice versa) as they travel from client to translator to proofreader to second proofreader etc. In addition I have seen DOCX files with a DOC extension, and vice versa.

You may not be the one who saved the RTF file as DOC, but if you deliver a MemoQ RTF as DOC to your client, keep in mind that your hard work may not end up in the client's TM because of that.

==

Could someone with MemoQ please confirm what happens if you try to import a two-column RTF file that was converted to DOC? I don't have MemoQ myself and I only have my client's description of what had happened. Does MemoQ give the user any clue that the updated segments have not been imported into the TM?


[Edited at 2015-11-20 11:24 GMT]


 

Stepan Konev  Identity Verified
Russian Federation
Local time: 05:56
English to Russian
After the rtf-docx-rtf saving sequence... Nov 20, 2015

...import (update) is ok.

(exported to rtf - saved as docx - changed a segment - saved as rtf - imported [updated] to mQ)

No, memoQ does not give any notice. It just imported the amended segments as if the docx saving step did not exist.

*If you mean importing docx without back saving to rtf, memoQ imports it as a new normal docx file (with ALL text on the left side).

P.S. After all, I don't understand, what is that strange about it. You change rtf to 3rd format and expect it to work well... Why? memoQ uses rtf for 'external review' purposes, and it imports doc/x files without warning. Isn't it ok? It treats the new file.doc/x as a regular doc/x file. Why should it warn you?
Can you confirm what would happen if you import the amended export-for-external-review.doc/x saved as odf back to Studio, for example?

[Edited at 2015-11-21 08:24 GMT]


 


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Warning: remember to resave as RTF

Advanced search






CafeTran Espresso
You've never met a CAT tool this clever!

Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer. Accept jobs from clients who use SDL Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools. Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free

More info »
BaccS – Business Accounting Software
Modern desktop project management for freelance translators

BaccS makes it easy for translators to manage their projects, schedule tasks, create invoices, and view highly customizable reports. User-friendly, ProZ.com integration, community-driven development – a few reasons BaccS is trusted by translators!

More info »



Forums
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search