| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15] > | We MUST quote in low-price jobs with OUR prices! Thread poster: Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT
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| My rates and sex are as good as ever | Feb 4, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
EN SP rates would not be decreasing? Mmmh, I would be surprised.
My rates have been the same for 13 years now (there is another forum about this). And sex is really good too! So life is good. Sex, money, rock and roll! (no drugs, thank God).
| | | | Arnaud HERVE 
France
Local time: 08:48
English to French
+ ...
I cannot reply to an endless list of individual cases, market segments, etc.
I am ready to admit that things are improving drastically in some cases.
However, I maintain that rates in general are decreasing.
And I am not totally certain that stating that $ 0.10 rates are disappearing in favor of $ 0.20 rates is showing a particular respect for people who want to keep informed of general trends. It would seem to me a gross fiction on the contrary.
... See more I cannot reply to an endless list of individual cases, market segments, etc.
I am ready to admit that things are improving drastically in some cases.
However, I maintain that rates in general are decreasing.
And I am not totally certain that stating that $ 0.10 rates are disappearing in favor of $ 0.20 rates is showing a particular respect for people who want to keep informed of general trends. It would seem to me a gross fiction on the contrary.
Again (!), apart from individual, non statistically relevant, cases.
And, also, hem, people please avoid getting too off-topic...
[Edited at 2009-02-04 11:29 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nicole Schnell
United States
Local time: 23:48
English to German
+ ...
In memoriam
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
As for doom and gloom, they are in the prophetic range. I'm just staying in the range of what is commonly admitted by economists:
Who are they? Translators? I kicked the so-called experts from a very major consulting firm out of my office at a former employer while we were in the process of being ISO9001 certified and wrote the manual myself.
1) Distance services are moving to cheaper countries
Right. All of the sudden everybody speaks French across the date line. Come on..
2) The current crisis is reducing activity
Crises are like war: They generate activity.
There's nothing wrong in asserting those obvious truths I think.
Translation is an industry, not a church.
And, once again (!), of course there are individual cases, market segments, etc.
Well, certainly. Don't miss it.
Moreover, and that's an opinion of mine that I don' find elsewhere, I think there is an anthropological weakness in the fact that everybody can have a computer and a word processor at home.
For instance, you cannot have a court of justice, or an industrial factory, or a national assembly, or a maritime port, in your home. Society is organized so that people earn money in exchange for going everyday to a place which is not their home. And to which not everybody has access.
You must be kidding. Everybody has access to your home? Get a locksmith.
| | | | | So glad the ice did not get you! | Feb 4, 2009 |
Kevin Lossner wrote: Arnaud HERVE wrote:
Actually, $ 0.10 jobs are disappearing.
And good riddance to them! Fortunately, they are being replaced with € 0.15 to € 0.20 ones. From agencies mostly. It's often a matter of how you package and sell the services.
Kevin, I am so glad the ice falling from your roof did not get you!! Keep up with it!
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Arnaud HERVE
France
Local time: 08:48
English to French
+ ...
Nicole Schnell wrote:
Who are they? Translators? I kicked the so-called experts from a very major consulting firm out of my office at a former employer while we were in the process of being ISO9001 certified and wrote the manual myself.
I didn't understand that one.
Right. All of the sudden everybody speaks French across the date line. Come on..
All graduates in Maghreb write French as well as I do, yes.
Crises are like war: They generate activity.
The present crisis is reducing activity. Or so everybody says. Even on Proz.com.
You must be kidding. Everybody has access to your home? Get a locksmith.
Please read again what I wrote.
| | | | | The relevance of statistical relevance | Feb 4, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
In the Spanish < > English pair prices are falling, definitely.
There ARE individual cases, but they are not that statistically relevant.
There is no single "Spanish English" market. Rather, there are hundreds of markets and, within them, thousands of segments.
One of the mistakes that thousands of translators make is to believe that a couple of anecdotes, or even a few dozen, have any relevance whatsoever to their own practice. It doesn't matter whether the anecdotes are positive or negative; comparing the work situation of two translators, even in the same language pair and country, is generally as meaningful as comparing apples and oranges.
Another mistake is to believe that public job postings by agencies on translators' portals provide an accurate picture of the 'market' in any language combination. At best, they represent a slice of one particular segment at one particular moment in time.
Of course, there are plenty of agencies who will try to convince translators that there is only one market (or one truth, let's say) out there and that prices are falling. Whether we accept this truth or not is another matter entirely. That said, if we do accept it, then of course the prophecy is fulfilled (but only for that one case).
If you take a look around, you'll find that this industry is so fragmented that it is possible to find 'proof' for just about any claim, positive or negative.
Even if we were to find a statistically relevant sample of translators' rates for a given combination (say an ITI/SFR/ATA survey, etc.), and we were to accept that those figures were in fact a true and accurate representation of the situation at a given moment in time, we would still find them largely irrelevant to us as individual translators because they could never encompass the complexity of our own personal experience and situation (which is why these surveys are always claimed by many to produce results that are way too high, or way too low, or are simply not applicable to them because of factors X, Y and Z).
This thread provides a good example of the industry's degree of fragmentation: some contributors say prices are rising, others say they're falling; some say it's hard to get 0.03 CU (currency units) per word, others say you can get 0.20 CU quite easily; some say there's no work about, while others say they have to turn work away.
All of these statements are true, and the contradictions that they produce illustrate the range of possibilities out there.
Andrew
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 08:48
English to German
+ ...
| Just a joke :-) | Feb 4, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote: Arnaud HERVE wrote:
EN SP rates would not be decreasing? Mmmh, I would be surprised. My rates have been the same for 13 years now (there is another forum about this). And sex is really good too! So life is good. Sex, money, rock and roll! (no drugs, thank God).
Tom and Fred, two translators, who haven't met for ages are having a beer in one of those beautiful beergardens Munich has to offer.
Tom: "How are you doing, Fred?"
Fred: "Thanks, I am doing fine. My agencies pay excellent rates, my wife enjoys sex with me very often."
Tom: "Nice to hear that, Fred! May I ask how much your agencies pay?"
Fred: "They have been paying 5 cents per word since 2001 and they never asked me to lower the rate."
Tom: "Erm, and how often does you wife have sex with you?"
Fred: "Quite often, actually, about once a quarter!"
| | | | | Can't believe... | Feb 4, 2009 |
Andrew Steel MCIL, MITI wrote: Arnaud HERVE wrote:
In the Spanish < > English pair prices are falling, definitely.
There ARE individual cases, but they are not that statistically relevant.
There is no single "Spanish English" market. Rather, there are hundreds of markets and, within them, thousands of segments.
Hi hi Andrew! (I do agree with your statement completely.) Now, I can't believe you forgot to tell us about your perception about whether English-Spanish/Spanish-English translators are getting enough good sex!
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Lingua 5B
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 08:48
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
| Sex and rates - related or not ? | Feb 4, 2009 |
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
about your perception about whether English-Spanish/Spanish-English translators are getting enough good sex!
* laughs *
The higher the translation rates, the better sex life !
Now try picturing the sex life of the free fan/ fun translators.
| | | | Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 08:48
English to German
+ ...
| Back to topic, please... | Feb 4, 2009 |
Hi folks,
Can we please leave side issues (such as one's sex life...) aside, to return to the original topic?
Thanks, Ralf
| | | | Arnaud HERVE
France
Local time: 08:48
English to French
+ ...
I am sorry it tends to get off-topic because of two participants, but I'll try remaining relevant anyway.
1) Can we agree that the average user manual for the average consumer good is a statistical landmark for basic translations?
2) Can we agree that EN < > SP is typical of a pair challenged by educated people in lower income countries?
3) For average user manuals in EN < > SP... rates are not decreasing? Really?
| | | | | Don't quite understand "challenged" here | Feb 4, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
2) Can we agree that EN < > SP is typical of a pair challenged by educated people in lower income countries?
Sorry Arnaud: Would you please explain what you mean with "challenged by educated people in lower income countries"? Do you mean that educated people in those countries believe the quality of Spanish translations in those manuals is low? In that case, I entirely agree, as many of them are translated in China...
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Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 08:48
English to German
+ ...
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
I am sorry it tends to get off-topic because of two participants
Two? Who?
All I said was "Don't believe people when they talk about money (rates etc.) and/or
sex! They will certainly very rarely tell the truth.
That is on topic!
As for the joke:
well, if nobody understands the meaning between the lines, the moderator can delete it.
Ralf?
| | | | Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 08:48
Member (2002)
English to German
+ ...
| On what basis? | Feb 4, 2009 |
Arnaud HERVE wrote:
However, I maintain that rates in general are decreasing.
I'm not convinced at all - so far, you have clearly failed to come forward with sound evidence on which your "general" assumption could be based. Please avoid the use of terms such as "general" when referring to your own experience limited to a small market segment.
By contrast, Andrew Steel's contribution sums it up rather nicely.
Steffen
| | | | Aniello Scognamiglio (X)
Germany
Local time: 08:48
English to German
+ ...
| Thanks, Andrew! | Feb 4, 2009 |
Andrew Steel MCIL, MITI wrote:
Another mistake is to believe that public job postings by agencies on translators' portals provide an accurate picture of the 'market' in any language combination. At best, they represent a slice of one particular segment at one particular moment in time.
Andrew
The best sentence I have read in this thread!
Even ProZ.com does not represent the translation market(s) in terms of rate trends.
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