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who shall afford transfer fees
Thread poster: xxxegyptranslat
xxxegyptranslat
Local time: 15:43
English to Arabic
Feb 3, 2009

Peace be upon you all,

I was facing a recent situation where I got my first invoice missing 19 Euro which I believe to be transfer fees, and after asking the PM she mentioned that the company is not used to pay for wire transfer, and I checked for this in the SLA and didn't find any thing related to this condition, my question is what shall I do in this situation, and who is responsible,
I know that I am the one to be blamed for not asking at the beginning about this issue, but anyways we are now in the middle of the situation, so what can I do, the company is located in the USA and they even don't have option to pay via moneybookers, which might be considered a good option for low transfer fees,
so please help,
I am from Egypt
and the company is from the USA.


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Jose Ruivo  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 14:43
Member (2007)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
Usual abuse Feb 3, 2009

In my experience, that's the usual abusive treatment I get from that part of the world; my clients in Europe have never tried to impose such thing.

If you can not reason with your client, try PayPal - the expense might come down to Usd 10; 5 for crediting in your account, another 5 for withdrawing.

In any case, do keep looking for better clients!

Peace,
Jose


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Sara Senft  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:43
Spanish to English
+ ...
This is why I don't accept payment via bank transfer Feb 3, 2009

This is one of several reasons I don't accept payment via bank transfer. I would rather not deal with the hassles of transfer fees. Plus, I am very cautious about the safety of my bank account.

To the original poster....Could you have asked for a paper check?


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:43
English to German
+ ...
A word from a US outsourcer Feb 3, 2009

Whenever a US company is sending a wire transfer, they have paid the fees on their side already, usually $ 25.00.

We have no control over any fees that are charged by your local bank for incoming wire transfers and currency exchange rates.

This has nothing to do with any "abusive treatment from that part of the world" or "safety of a bank account".

Would you please explain how come you are dealing with a third kind of currency anyway?

Sorry, I am a bit upset by those remarks.



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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 15:43
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
That's the cost of doing business Feb 3, 2009

egyptranslator wrote:
I was facing a recent situation where I got my first invoice missing 19 Euro which I believe to be transfer fees, and after asking the PM she mentioned that the company is not used to pay for wire transfer, and I checked for this in the SLA and didn't find any thing related to this condition, my question is what shall I do in this situation, and who is responsible.


1. What is the SLA?

2. EUR 19 is a little stiff for intermediary banking fees. I would have expected no more than about EUR 10.00 for such fees.

The thing with bank transfers or wire transfers is that you can't always control the final transaction costs. Sometimes there is an intermediary bank that charges its own fees that you can't predict or control. Some translators expect the client to pay these costs also, but I believe that since it is out of their hands, it is a cost that you should bear. It is the cost of doing business.

If you're concerned that the client may be trying to cheat you out of EUR 19.00, you can ask him to fax you the deposit slip or proof of deposit on which the amount is indicated that he had paid his bank. Then you can compare it with what you received.

It is because of such uncertain fees that you need to charge a minimum rate to cover such eventualities. All in all, bank or wire transfers can be very nice.


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 15:43
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
As I understood it Feb 3, 2009

Nicole Schnell wrote:
We have no control over any fees that are charged by your local bank for incoming wire transfers and currency exchange rates.


As I understood it, the OP already accounted for those fees, and is missing an additional EUR 19.


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:43
English to German
+ ...
Also, a word about "paper checks" Feb 3, 2009

If the vendor wishes to be paid by check, it is a good idea to use cashiers checks. Those are prepaid checks that are guaranteed by the bank. Such checks cost $5.00 a piece, a run to the bank (no, they don't come in a check book) and they are better sent via certified mail (expensive) as they can be cashed in on receipt (by thieves, as well) and without waiting time. YOU WILL STILL HAVE TO PAY the fees for cashing this check at your local bank.

A regular check will probably take weeks until the money arrives - another reason to complain?

Ask your client to use Paypal. Then don't complain about the 3.8% Paypal fee.

Usually, I pay up out of pocket to cover those 3.8%. At my expense.

I am a bit tired of reading such complaints over and over because colleagues obviously don't do their homework.


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:43
English to German
+ ...
@Samuel: Where did you read this? Feb 3, 2009

Samuel Murray wrote:

As I understood it, the OP already accounted for those fees, and is missing an additional EUR 19.


I do like your post about the cost of doing business a lot. However, where does the "already accounted" bit come from?


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Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 15:43
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Upon second reading... Feb 3, 2009

Nicole Schnell wrote:
I do like your post about the cost of doing business a lot. However, where does the "already accounted" bit come from?


Upon second reading it seems that the OP's post could mean either. That is how I interpreted what he wrote. Anyway, I was hoping that he would reply and clarify.


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Mahmoud Rayyan  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 15:43
English to Arabic
@Jose Feb 3, 2009

I can answer you instead of the original poster as long as I am from the same country Egypt,
we can't use Paypal bcause it doesn't cover Egypt, only moneybookers and I believe as long as his client is from USA, he can't use MB also because the USA is not covered by MB.


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:43
English to German
+ ...
Money Bookers used to be a fine option. Feb 3, 2009

Unfortunately, this service was stopped a few months ago.

This doesn't turn clients into "abusers", Jose. As long as you don't open up alternative options to receive payments, it is your own problem. Do you accept credit card payments, for example? It is against the law to mail envelopes with cash...



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Nadejda Vega Cespedes  Identity Verified

Local time: 15:43
Spanish to Russian
+ ...
No abuse at all Feb 3, 2009

Jose Ruivo wrote:

my clients in Europe have never tried to impose such thing.



That's because bank transfers within the E.U. are often free, and when they are not, they are cheap. If you are not willing to take care of wire transfer fees when dealing with clients from across the pond, maybe you should say so when negotiating terms of payment?

As to the amount, €19 doesn't sound beyond imagination. I sometimes transfer money from my E.U. bank account to places half the world away (for private purposes as I don't outsource anything), and the costs do get nasty.


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:43
English to German
+ ...
Incoming wire transfers and fees Feb 4, 2009

I pay $36.00 for each and every incoming wire transfer in a foreign currency.

That's 27,74 Euro.

Just for your information.

No, my clients are not abusive. Such fees have been considered in my rates beforehand. No hearts were broken.


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MariusV  Identity Verified
Lithuania
Local time: 16:43
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
some advice Feb 5, 2009

What I usually do - I always agree on bank transfer costs BEFORE confirming the job (or during the negotiations for the price/rate of the job) same as for rates, payment terms, payment methods (if the client does not want to pay by bank). The agreement on who pays the transfer costs, in my opinion, is a matter of agreement despite that I personally think that the doer of the job has to receive the amount of the job (i.e. if the value of the job is 100 USD, he/she shall receive these 100 USD, and each party bears its own costs for whatever - why should be pay for agency's transfer costs? Will they pay us for electricity, coffee, or PC deprecation? So, all in all, as long as the agreement on the rate is reached, the next agreement shall be on who pays those costs. The PO shall contain "Job title, description, deadline, rate per unit, sum, sum to be paid, due payment date, and AND payment method PLUS the bearer of the transfer costs". This will give a lot of clarity.

And, before the sender transfers the money, the bank (or e-bank system) always asks to indicate who bears the transfer costs. These are of there types: BEN, SHA, OUR. I think, this explains the "differences" about the actual money received. Below what was found on the Internet Almighty.

Explanations about BEN, SHA, and OUR money transfers

BEN money transfer means that the beneficiary pays all the charges, i.e. the charges of his/her bank and the correspondent bank, which are deducted from the sum transferred. Therefore, the beneficiary will not receive the entire sum.
SHA money transfer means that the sender pays beneficiary's bank charges for the international money transfer and the beneficiary pays the correspondent bank's charges.
OUR money transfer means that the sender pays all the charges incurred for this transfer, i.e. the charges of the beneficiary's bank and the correspondent bank. In this case, the beneficiary will receive the entire sum of the money transfer. The beneficiary's bank can also have the right to charge additional fees for an OUR money transfer.


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Nicole Schnell  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 06:43
English to German
+ ...
Where is the logic in that? You didn't understand. Feb 6, 2009

MariusV wrote:

i.e. if the value of the job is 100 USD, he/she shall receive these 100 USD, and each party bears its own costs for whatever - why should be pay for agency's transfer costs?



If the recipient invoices 100 Whatevercurrency, the recipient will receive precisely 100 Whatevercurrency. Don't forget, the outsourcer has paid up already to make sure that this precise net amount will arrive.

You are contradicting yourself, Marius. What exactly do you want? That the outsourcer pays your share as well? Raise your rates. Don't expect outsourcers to be your personal accountant and to take care of your bookkeeping at their expense. If you chose to work worldwide, you have to provide money transfer options that work best for you.

I fully agree with your brilliant explanation regarding how payment options should be agreed upon in advance - just don't assume

1.) That the client wants to cheat you out of money
2.) That you are the one and only victim

Nobody is deducting anything from your net amount besides the bank that you chose.

Please don't take this personally.


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