Tranmail email list, is it current in 2009?
Thread poster: David Jessop

David Jessop  Identity Verified
Spain
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
May 23, 2009

Hi,

Can anyone vouch for whether Alex Eames' Tranmail list at

http://www.translatortips.net/tranmail.html

has been updated recently?

Most of the dates on his website are from 2004 and I don't see too many posts here about the list in recent times. An email to his support team has gone unanswered...

Thanks.

David


 

Astrid Elke Witte  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 02:33
Member (2002)
German to English
+ ...
I very much doubt that the list is still maintained May 24, 2009

I used to be on the mailing list for receiving the e-mail newsletter. As far as I recall, I received it quite regularly at one time, sometime between when I first acquired a computer in Spring 2001 and - as you mention - 2004. I do not think I have received it since 2004. Most people do not keep up something that they start for ever.

You could maybe try contacting him through his profile page:

http://www.proz.com/profile/1211

Astrid


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 02:33
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
All that spamming! May 24, 2009

Honestly using this database is spamming, and in some countries (like Spain) utterly illegal.

I encourage you to discard the idea and look for contact details yourself over the web, sending individual, personal messages so that they are not spamming. Please remember that spamming has very severe fines in Spain, under the regulations of the Agencia de Protección de Datos.


 

David Jessop  Identity Verified
Spain
Member
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Spamming? I think not. May 24, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:

Honestly using this database is spamming, and in some countries (like Spain) utterly illegal.

I encourage you to discard the idea and look for contact details yourself over the web, sending individual, personal messages so that they are not spamming. Please remember that spamming has very severe fines in Spain, under the regulations of the Agencia de Protección de Datos.


Honestly, it depends on the way one uses such a database and, besides the legal issues you brought up, spamming is completely against my ethical beliefs.

I encourage you to share your off-topic concerns over private message next time in a constructive fashion. Please remember my question dealt with its availability, not whether you believe that the construction of it period indicates that the buyer will be spamming agencies.

Best,
David


 

KSL Berlin  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 01:33
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
Not spamming? May 24, 2009

Perhaps not in your case, but often enough it is. Some idiots have included my data in a few of those damned lists (God only knows why), and I am regularly spammed by translators of languages with which I have no relationship whatsoever. They seem to think I am an agency looking for translators of Chinese, Arabic, Bulgarian, Lower Slobovian, etc. Although I've enjoyed a little nice correspondence with some of these people whose approach at least makes me want to offer a courteous "not here" reply, they are all really wasting their time - and mine.

I don't know what level of detail is to be found in that list, but I strongly suggest that you and anyone else investigate your "target" carefully before making contact. I am slowly becoming so irritated that I am tempted to post a public blacklist of spammers who are too lazy to do the research that anyone looking for clients ought to be capable of.

Edited to add:

In posting such a blacklist, e-mail addresses would also be included to facilitate their harvesting by spambots so that "traffic" is generated without me being so rude as to mount a denial of service attack or any such thing. Really, people - you ought to know who is on the other end of an "application" for work or a proposal of collaboration. I don't mind if the contact at least involves my language pair, because if the person has some decent qualifications, I can always pass on a recommendation. But I don't read Spanish, so how can I recommend a Spanish translator except as a nice person? I can't evaluate his/her their actual work quality. These days, the same goes for every other language beside German.

[Edited at 2009-05-24 12:42 GMT]


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 02:33
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Spam is spam, whether you work hard or not May 24, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
I encourage you to discard the idea and look for contact details yourself over the web, sending individual, personal messages so that they are not spamming.


An unsolicited commercial e-mail does not magically become solicited merely because you've written it personally or because you've expended a lot of effort to find the recipient's contact details.

You say spam is illegal in Spain. Surely you don't mean that it is illegal in Spain to use e-mail for commercial communication purposes? I'm sure there must be ways to utilise e-mail in Spain for the purpose of communicating commercial messages without breaking the law. Or not? What does Spain's laws really say about spam? How is spam defined? What must a sender care to include in his mail to ensure that he is not in breach of Spain's spam regulations?

In my own country, an unsolicited commercial e-mail is only illegal if it fails to include three items of information: (a) the identity of the sender, (b) where the sender got the recipient's details, and (c) information about how the recipient can ensure no further mails from the sender. That's it. You can legally spam in my country... and in most countries, including Spain. If you do it right, I'm sure of it.


 

Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 02:33
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Spam is perfectly legal in Spain May 24, 2009

Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
* Using this database is spamming
* and in some countries (like Spain) utterly illegal.


Well, IANAL, but according to this document:

https://www.agpd.es/portalweb/english_resources/regulations/common/pdfs/INFORMACION_SPAM.INGLES_V.30-mayo.pdf

* Using the Tranmail database is not prohibited by Spain's anti-spam laws.
* You can legally spam in Spain, as long as you stick to a few easy-to-follow principles.

You may send marketing messages to recipients if:
- you have the recipient's explicit permission, and/or
- the message relates to an existing commercial relationship with the recipient.

You may not send marketing messages to recipients if:
- the recipient had opted out of receiving such messages, or
- the recipient had not opted in to receiving such messages, or
- you fail to provide a free, simple way of opting out.

In Spain, spam is defined as unsolicited marketing messages (not merely commercial messages, whether solicited or unsolicited). Neither the number of mails per recipient, nor the number of mails per mailing, nor the frequency of mails are at all related to the definition of spam in Spain.

It is unclear from the documents I consulted whether a message whose sole purpose is to ask permission to send a marketing message would itself be considered a marketing message.

Some potential loopholes for would-be spammers in Spain:

* Make sure your signature mentions your profession and your contact details.

* Offering your own services unsolicited is illegal, but enquiring about services that the recipient may be offering may be perfectly legal. So if you suspect that a translation agency has a register of freelancers (and most of them do), it may be acceptable to ask them via e-mail what their procedures are for getting listed in it.

* If a recipient does opt out, I'm sure they'll appreciate a confirmation e-mail (again, don't forget your signature).

If the creator of a spam list declares that the list is created by an opt-in procedure (i.e. agencies specifically ask to be on the list), then it may be that freelancer mails to such recipients are not unsolicited... but IANAL. Anyway, if you were to buy such a spam list and send then a message to all recipients to ask them to confirm that they had opted in to the list (or not), then it could be said that the purpose of your mail is not marketing, and hence it may actually not be spam... in Spain.


 


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