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Do you get paid for internal tags and numbers?
Thread poster: Dinny

Dinny  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 01:34
Italian to Danish
+ ...
May 24, 2009

Hi,
I'm having this discussion with an agency I work with. In a translation of approx. 6800 words, the equivalent in internal tags correspond to approx. 400 words. (f.inst.
,
, etc.). The agency is not including these internal tags at all in the word count, although it takes more time to deal with an internal tag than with simply translating a word. (You have to either copy/paste the tags or write them manually.). What do you think? Is dealing with these internal tags to be considered as 'work for free'?
(It's probably irrelevant, but I can specify that the text is in an Excel file and I use Wordfast to translate it).

Second question: When doing a word count do you include numbers - and get paid for them?

May I have your opinion please - preferably short and sweet?icon_wink.gif

Thanks!
Dinny

P.S.: I was including examples of these internal tags... without realizing that they would not be shown! Sorry!icon_wink.gif

[Edited at 2009-05-24 15:49 GMT]

[Edited at 2009-05-24 15:50 GMT]


 

Maria Diaconu  Identity Verified
Romania
Local time: 01:34
English to Romanian
Numbers yes, absolutely May 24, 2009

Numbers do not remain unchanged in all cases - for example, if you have 2.1 mg in English you have to translate it as 2,1 mg in Romanian - there is some work involved, so you must get paid for it.

 

Giuliana Buscaglione  Identity Verified
Austria
Local time: 00:34
Member (2001)
German to Italian
+ ...
No, I don't but... May 24, 2009

Hi Dinny,

I don't get paid extra for internal tags & numbers, but my rate covers the time I invest in changing commas into dots and vice-versaicon_wink.gif

Giuliana

[Edited at 2009-05-24 16:26 GMT]


 

KSL Berlin  Identity Verified
Portugal
Local time: 23:34
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
You raise an interesting point here May 24, 2009

Last year I had a nightmarish project in which a fairly simple text had many hidden text notations embedded in the middle of sentences, which were then converted into tags by Trados TagEditor. The density of these was so bad that it took me about five times longer than usual to translate the text. Since then I've been thinking about some reasonable way to charge for such formatting in source documents and to encourage "cleaner" sources.

Then it occurred to me that my primary tool (DVX) will give separate tag counts for the source and target text. Since these tags must be placed correctly in a sentence and do in fact represent extra work, it would be entirely reasonable to charge, say, the equivalent of half a word per inline tag (one which appears anywhere in the segment).

Has anyone factored such things into their charges in a quantitative way?


 

Daniel García
English to Spanish
+ ...
Not paid normally May 24, 2009

I have hardly ever seen internal tags and numbers paid for separately.

In most projects I have worked with, the CAT tools could deal with them in an efficient way.

I can remember a particularly complex project with lots of internal tags, similar to the one mentioned by Kevin. In that ocasion, translators reported that it was taking them longer to deal with internal tags and the rate per word was increased in proportion for that project.

Daniel


 

Adam Łobatiuk  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 00:34
Member (2009)
English to Polish
+ ...
That depends on the project May 24, 2009

If my project involves a CAT tool (i.e. if the client requires an unclean file and/or an updated TM), I don't get paid for numbers and tags, and I don't think I should. You don't really have to insert tags manually - both Wordfast and Trados can insert the source when no match is found, so you can overwrite and translate around and between tags. Admittedly, you do sometimes have to add tags in non-100% matches and might have to change their order, but you do that with keyboard shortcuts, which is fast and easy. Wordfast is far superior to Trados in that respect, as you can optionally add tags with their surrounding punctuation, or even invert their order, if I remember correctly (you set that up in Pandora's Box).

If my client does not expect me to use a CAT tool, I'm normally paid by the page, which can be a specific number of characters, and that includes numbers. However, in the rare cases where the text has tags, but I am not expected to use a CAT tool, I don't charge for the tags, but might raise the rate slightly.


 

Dinny  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 01:34
Italian to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Adam, I'm only talking about the internal tags May 24, 2009

Thanks for your reply. All the external tags are dealt with perfectly with Wordfast... but here we are talking about a document in Excel which I translate with Wordfast because I am supposed to stick to the TM we have built.
So the tags are not "dealt with" in any way by Wordfast, they are part of/in the middle of the text I am working with...


 

Adam Łobatiuk  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 00:34
Member (2009)
English to Polish
+ ...
Ok, Dinny, I didn't get that, but here's an idea May 24, 2009

In Wordfast's PB, switch on the "Placeable_Between=<>" parameter. Now the tags should be treated as tags.

I haven't really done that before or even translated Excel with Wordfast, because I only use it for certain purposes. Personally, I'd either use Trados Tag Editor with some plug-in magic, or - if possible - copy the Excel content to Word, add Trados styles, make all tags internal with Search & Replace, translate, and remove the internal style.

HTH
Adam

[Edited at 2009-05-24 20:26 GMT]


 

DZiW
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
absolutely yes or no May 24, 2009

Probably I will not rediscover America for you but as ex-PM I can say that translation documents should include glean information only. So, if your client doesn’t want number or tags etc. translated then he should remove them before delivery:
why should they send you non-relevant troubles?

My approach was like this: if a translator has to deal with it then he should be paid for it. In your case it depends on the terms your client and you agreed. Just negotiate it properly.

Cheers


 

Yossi Rozenman  Identity Verified
Israel
Local time: 01:34
English to Hebrew
+ ...
Generally, I charge more for tagged files May 25, 2009

Yes, working with tagged files is more time consuming, and this is why I charge about 20% more for tagged files.

But it also depend on the source text. If there are very few tags or simple to deal with tags, I charge usual price.


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 00:34
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
No May 25, 2009

We have been working in CAT projects for over a decade and have never been paid for numbers or tags. Tags are in about 90% of all our work!icon_smile.gif

 

Dinny  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 01:34
Italian to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
INTERNAL tags in 90% of your work? May 25, 2009

Well, Tomas, in that case you don't deal much with TRANSLATION, do you?
Actually, translation seems to be just 10% of your work.icon_wink.gif


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 00:34
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Not really May 25, 2009

Dinny wrote:
Well, Tomas, in that case you don't deal much with TRANSLATION, do you?
Actually, translation seems to be just 10% of your work.icon_wink.gif


I did not mean to say that 90% of the words are tags. I meant to say that 90% of the lines I work on have tags in them (maybe 1, 2 or a few tags)...icon_smile.gif

Use of a CAT tool makes dealing with tags rather efficient as your memory gets more comprehensive, so dealing with tags means a very low percentage of translation time. I reckon that all CAT tools have ways of helping you insert tags with the press of a button, instead of copying them manually.


 

DZiW
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
MS Word May 25, 2009

Once our key Partner mentioned 'non-translable' data and told us he relied on MS Word counting routine only. I turned a notebook, wrote something like
1 2 3.4 5678
and pressed F7 (statistics). There was a silence and then he burst of laughter. So it was agreedicon_wink.gif

[Редактировалось 2009-05-25 11:22 GMT]


 

Dinny  Identity Verified
Greece
Local time: 01:34
Italian to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Older version maybe does not contain "statistics"? May 25, 2009

Hi,
I tried this - but without figuring out where the laugh was!icon_smile.gif
My "F7" is a spell-checker!

icon_wink.gif

Dinny


 
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