Non-paying agency files for bankruptcy and starts again
Thread poster: Amélie Ragot

Amélie Ragot  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:26
English to French
+ ...
Feb 23, 2010

Hello everyone,

I have just found out in a Blue Board entry that a non-paying agency I had worked with on two small projects in late 2009 and which filled for bankruptcy some weeks ago, is starting again under a new name.

As I said, since those two projects were very small, the loss is minimal and probably not worth spending any more time trying to recover it. However, I noticed in the Blue Board that for many colleagues the loss turned out to be much more significant, which led me to thinking: why should this outsourcer get away with it so easily? Can nothing be done in such cases?

Thanks in advance for your output!

Amelie


 

Katalin Horváth McClure  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 05:26
Member (2002)
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Submit a support request Feb 24, 2010

If you have proof that the new agency is the same as the old under a new name, the BB records can be linked with a well visible note from site staff.
Also, if the old agency had non-payment issues, and those were reported to ProZ staff, the agency can get banned from ProZ, with a warning on their BB record, and the ban can extend to the new name as well (again, if there is proof).
Your best bet is to contact site staff via a Support Request with all the information you have.
Thank you for doing that, it could help everyone.
Katalin


 

Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:26
French to German
+ ...
There already were such cases... Feb 24, 2010

and the site staff made no difficulties at all to ban the outsourcer under its new denomination.

From what I understand, limited liability companies may go bankrupt - but their (former) owners can make a fresh start immediately without having to care about anything...


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:26
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Indeed, a support request... Feb 24, 2010

...so that the Proz.com team identify the fact that they are the same company and can link the old BlueBoard to the new profile.

Well done! Thanks for posting and for chasing the cheeky bunch!


 

Amélie Ragot  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:26
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Link made in the Blueboard Feb 24, 2010

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

If you have proof that the new agency is the same as the old under a new name, the BB records can be linked with a well visible note from site staff.


Hello everyone!

Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts!

What I know for sure and can easily be checked is that when I type in what used to be the website address of this agency (which by the way has already been banned from posting jobs on ProZ), I get relocated to a new website. The name of the agency is different but the physical address is just the same (phone and fax numbers have changed though).

I was wondering whether this was proof enough to submit a support request when I realized that in the meantime the link had been made between the two names in the Blue Board. It looks like this agency won't get away with it so easily in the end!


 

Sergei Tumanov  Identity Verified
Local time: 12:26
English to Russian
+ ...
however Feb 24, 2010

you are not right.
From legal point of view.

It´s a new legal entity, which has nothing in common with that fraudulent agency you had problems with.

[Edited at 2010-02-24 20:29 GMT]


 

Tomás Cano Binder, BA, CT  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 11:26
Member (2005)
English to Spanish
+ ...
Don't agree at all Feb 24, 2010

Sergei Tumanov wrote:
It´s a new legal entity, which has nothing in common with that fraudulent agency you had problems with.

Sergei, this change of denomination or address has never stopped Proz.com from assigning old BlueBoard entries. If it was so easy to escape from the BlueBoard, the existance of BlueBoard itself would not make any sense.


 

John Fossey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 05:26
Member (2008)
French to English
A measure of creditworthiness Feb 24, 2010

Sergei Tumanov wrote:

you are not right.
From legal point of view.

It´s a new legal entity, which has nothing in common with that fraudulent agency you had problems with.


This may be true from the point of view of taking them to court to recover amounts owed. They may well have covered their legal bases to keep their assets unreachable. (Although in some jurisdictions the director's of a corporation can be held criminally liable if it can be proved that they created another corporation with the intent to remove assets from the bankruptcy trustee's reach.)

But from the point of view of predicting their likelihood of paying their translators, which is what the BlueBoard is all about, an agency that goes bankrupt, without paying their former translators, has everything to do with an agency that starts up as a different legal entity but the same people operating it. It says something about those people's business practices and "creditworthiness", which is what translator's need to know.


 

Marie-Hélène Hayles  Identity Verified
Local time: 11:26
Italian to English
+ ...
They contacted me too Feb 24, 2010

Amelie Ragot wrote:

Katalin Horvath McClure wrote:

If you have proof that the new agency is the same as the old under a new name, the BB records can be linked with a well visible note from site staff.


...
I was wondering whether this was proof enough to submit a support request when I realized that in the meantime the link had been made between the two names in the Blue Board. It looks like this agency won't get away with it so easily in the end!


Canadian agency, right (I assume I'm allowed to give that detail)? They contacted me this evening. First thing I did was check the Blue Board - there was already a WWA of 1 for the new name, but the link to the old one confirmed that I'd do well to steer clear of them.

I wasn't tempted in the first place, as they were only offering $0.06 per word. The BB entries made the difference between me replying courteously to say "thanks, but no thanks", and just hitting the delete button without wasting further time on them.


 

Eleftherios Kritikakis  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 04:26
Member (2003)
Greek to English
+ ...
...from a "legal" point of view... Feb 25, 2010

Sergei,

The purpose of the Blue Board has little to do with legal liabilities.

It has to do with "behaviors".

The same people open a new ageny - do you expect anything dfferent?

What I mean is this: assuming that Stalin was alive and had changed the name of his political party, would you then introduce him to your daughter?




[Edited at 2010-02-25 01:26 GMT]


 

Amélie Ragot  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 11:26
English to French
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
It's all about prevention... Feb 25, 2010

Marie-Hélène Hayles wrote:

Canadian agency, right (I assume I'm allowed to give that detail)? They contacted me this evening. First thing I did was check the Blue Board - there was already a WWA of 1 for the new name, but the link to the old one confirmed that I'd do well to steer clear of them.



Actually, the agency I was originally referring to isn't Canadian - it is based in Belgium. Good to see we can rely on the BB though!

Eleftherios Kritikakis wrote:

What I mean is this: assuming that Stalin was alive and had changed the name of his political party, would you then introduce him to your daughter?



Good point! That's exactly what I was trying to get at when I started this thread. I suppose very little - if anything - can be done to recover any amounts owed by an entity that has gone bankrupt. However we can work towards prevention and make sure other colleagues won't be fooled around with!


 


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Non-paying agency files for bankruptcy and starts again

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