| Pages in topic: < [1 2] | Another aspect of the war for cheap rates Thread poster: Benoit HUPIN (X)
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Laurent KRAULAND (X) 
France
Local time: 21:30
French to German
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| It has been done for years... | May 5, 2010 |
philgoddard wrote:
... but then that's what supermarkets are increasingly doing to manufacturers: charging them a fee for the privilege of stocking their goods.
Please do give them an entry on BlueBoard.
and even decades in France, the deal being "You pay us and we sell your products. You don't pay and your products will be dereferenced". Not more, not less.
I never wondered where the ridiculous prices offered in supermarkets came from: someone was financing them, namely the manufacturers.
The same applies to translation services and "vendors" finance agencies because those are barely able to survive on their own cash flow. First by accepting low rates, then by paying them backwards margins... and/or fees for the use of an online translation system.
To get back on topic, and as a side note, I am quite certain that this kind of arrangement (at least in the translation industry) never will be written down in a regular contract.
What do you think?
[Edited at 2010-05-05 04:40 GMT]
| | | | Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Poland
Local time: 21:30
English to Polish
+ ...
Laurent KRAULAND wrote: Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
... that a freelancer - heck, a business person! - could get so self-righteously outraged by a business proposal.
No matter how thin one slices it, there always will be two sides. What appears to be a "business proposal" can also be a sign that the agency in question is going under and does not know anymore where they should reap their profits from. How about that interpretation?
Makes a lot of sense, though I still can't see how it's not a business proposal
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 21:30
French to German
+ ...
| Depends on your definition | May 5, 2010 |
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote: Laurent KRAULAND wrote: Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
... that a freelancer - heck, a business person! - could get so self-righteously outraged by a business proposal.
No matter how thin one slices it, there always will be two sides. What appears to be a "business proposal" can also be a sign that the agency in question is going under and does not know anymore where they should reap their profits from. How about that interpretation? Makes a lot of sense, though I still can't see how it's not a business proposal
of "business proposal"... Would anyone take e.g. the risk of not being paid at all because the agency goes bust? There would be no need to discuss this proposal anymore: the translator would lose 100%. Now that's a deal!
Plus the fact, and to get down to reality, that such a proposal normally has to be backed by a written contract (at least from my point of view, as such credit notes must be justified from a legal and fiscal point of view towards the French authorities).
[Edited at 2010-05-05 07:22 GMT]
| | | | Tim Drayton
Cyprus
Local time: 22:30
Turkish to English
+ ...
| Rate reduction | May 5, 2010 |
Benoit HUPIN wrote:
Hello everybody,
I have just received a mail from an old client, a French agency, asking me to "buy" my place of first in the list. The system consists in granting a quantity of free translations corresponding to a percentage of the annual invoiced amount. For example, for an invoiced amount of 10,000 €, I would have to translate for peanuts up to a volume worth 1,000 €.
Obviously, I put an end to this relationship as I consider it is not in the interest of the translator to accept such things. It is not a good approach to pay for work.
I wonder if anyone else has received such weird proposals. Your comments will be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards,
Benoit
Essentially, this is just a request for a rate reduction of 10%, isn't it?
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Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 21:30
French to German
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| Rather complicated... | May 5, 2010 |
Tim Drayton wrote:
Essentially, this is just a request for a rate reduction of 10%, isn't it?
So and in your opinion, why would the agency not use this rather straightforward road and ask for the rate reduction immediately? And why do supermarkets not give immediate discounts, preferring to issue so-called payback cards to consumers? (*)
(*) Please see this comparison as one on principles, not on persons.
[Edited at 2010-05-05 07:31 GMT]
| | | | Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Poland
Local time: 21:30
English to Polish
+ ...
Supermarkets use the discounts (or bonus points, or whatever) to encourage people to spend a certain amount, so there would be no point in granting a rebate before the consumer has reached the threshold.
A more appropriate comparison, however, would be with the supplier-supermarket relationship. Volume discounts work the same way — every year the supplier furnishes the supermarket with a correcting invoice (or receives a 'service invoice' from the supermarket - now this is a techn... See more Supermarkets use the discounts (or bonus points, or whatever) to encourage people to spend a certain amount, so there would be no point in granting a rebate before the consumer has reached the threshold.
A more appropriate comparison, however, would be with the supplier-supermarket relationship. Volume discounts work the same way — every year the supplier furnishes the supermarket with a correcting invoice (or receives a 'service invoice' from the supermarket - now this is a technicality that would raise a translator's blood pressure) based on the value of sales to that supermarket in the concluded year.
[Edited at 2010-05-05 08:05 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 21:30
French to German
+ ...
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
A more appropriate comparison, however, would be with the supplier-supermarket relationship. Volume discounts work the same way — every year the supplier furnishes the supermarket with a correcting invoice (or receives a 'service invoice' from the supermarket - now this is a technicality that would raise a translator's blood pressure) based on the value of sales to that supermarket in the concluded year.
This is a more appropriate comparison. I wonder what translators will say on the day agencies ask them for fees in order to process their delivery mails, invoices and so on (or to keep the translator's profile in good standing, for that matter), this despite of the fact that such "costs":
1) can be artificially high;
2) are deductible as "general business expenses";
3) can be lowered by partial automation.
Again this is just an example.
My other question would be: what will such agencies do if the reply they get is a massive "No"?
[Edited at 2010-05-05 10:13 GMT]
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak
Poland
Local time: 21:30
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | A difference... | May 5, 2010 |
Tim Drayton wrote:
Essentially, this is just a request for a rate reduction of 10%, isn't it?
There is a not-so-small difference: here you do your 10% for free and hope that you get the 90% over the year...
As Stefano wrote, the only fair way of doing this would be a written guarantee that for 1000 they pay you 10000 during the year. But they would never do that, of course.
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Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)
Poland
Local time: 21:30
English to Polish
+ ...
| which comes first here - turnover or rebate? | May 5, 2010 |
The system consists in granting a quantity of free translations corresponding to a percentage of the annual invoiced amount. For example, for an invoiced amount of 10,000 €, I would have to translate for peanuts up to a volume worth 1,000 €.
It would indeed be crazy to accept this before even starting to receive the POs summing up to EUR 10,000. But the way I understand it, it's an ex post thing. Or?
| | | | QUOI
Chinese to English
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| Bona fide business/marketing tactics | May 5, 2010 |
Incentive schemes come in all forms and shapes and everyone can utilise them to their advantage.
My local coffee shop offers a free cup of coffee (regular size) for every 9 cups I consume. Of course I have to pay for the first 9 cups at their price-board price.
When a client asks me for a discount and promises me on-going jobs, I often tell them that I will not lower my rate but for every $1000 worth of service they buy from me, I’d be happy to give them a free job u... See more Incentive schemes come in all forms and shapes and everyone can utilise them to their advantage.
My local coffee shop offers a free cup of coffee (regular size) for every 9 cups I consume. Of course I have to pay for the first 9 cups at their price-board price.
When a client asks me for a discount and promises me on-going jobs, I often tell them that I will not lower my rate but for every $1000 worth of service they buy from me, I’d be happy to give them a free job up to a certain value provided they meet some conditions (ie no outstanding accounts etc. etc.) It is then up to the client to take advantage of my offer.
I just don’t understand why some translators are so ready to give discount as soon as they are promised of large projects and/or on-going collaborations. Not even a purchase order can ensure that a promise will be kept good.
[Edited at 2010-05-05 10:57 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
France
Local time: 21:30
French to German
+ ...
2114 wrote:
I just don’t understand why some translators are so ready to give discount as soon as they are promised of large projects and/or on-going collaborations. Not even a purchase order can ensure a promise will be kept good.
As one famous French politician said, promises only bind those who believe them. To which I may add: and the rest is "literature".
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